Transformerless G7 or thing like that ?

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Jazzy_Pidjay

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
370
Location
Paris (FRANCE)
Anybody know if it's possible ?

a thing like the M*149 or other tube
mic without transformer

- how to reduce the output impedance ?

- the ratio ?

what is the principle of transformerless output ?

any schematic ?

thanks
 
The input noise of a tube is like a 10K resistor.

The output of a general-purpose tube is about 10K.

The impedance of a ribbon mike is 0.1 ohms. Impedance of a dynamic mike is often under 100 ohms. Impedance of a condenser mike is many mega-ohms.

The "best" impedance for a long cable is 100 to 500 ohms, depending what factors are important. For short cables, you can ignore that: a 10-meter (30 foot) cable can be treated as a 1,000pFd capacitor which is about 10K ohms at the top of the audio band. But when you get into kilometer/mile-long cables, the cable WILL act like a low impedance and you need to be able to drive it.

So 0.1 ohm and 10 ohm mikes are, in music studio use, transformed up to 150 ohms to feed the line, and condenser mikes are buffered down to 150 ohms on the line.

Then, to overcome the tube noise, we transform up to 10K to overwhelm the tube noise. (Old PA-system mikes were sometimes transformed-up to 50K ohms to drive short lines directly into a tube.)

So you "need" an input transformer. A standard dynamic mike directly into a general purpose tube will give a noise figure of 15dB or 20dB, Soft sounds, audible in the room, will be hidden under tube hiss.

Also a tube input is unbalanced. Mike signals are weak. Even a small amount of electric noise near the cable will put buzz in the cable and the signal. We usually want to run mike cables balanced to reject buzz.

At the output: you can drive short cables with the 10K output resistance. But long cables need lower impedance. Also some recording equipment has 600 ohm inputs (because they assumed large professional studios where everything might be connected with long cables). And again, you may wish to use balanced connections to reject buzz.

You can reduce tube impedance, by using a bigger tube eating more power supply current. A transformer input tube mike preamp's first stage usually eats about 1mA. To get low noise without a transformer, we need 30mA to 100mA, which forces you to use several tubes in parallel.

You can use two tubes to get a balanced input. But the noise of the two tubes adds together. To be balanced AND low-noise, we need four times the power supply current, 100mA-200mA.

The same at the output. Any of the loudspeaker output tubes can drive 600 ohm loads if we flow about 40mA through the tube, though it may sound a little strained. Two tubes can make a balanced signal, but we need double the supply current, and many 4 times the supply current for low distortion.

Two transformers and two tubes can make a good mike preamp, eating about 5mA. That's 1.5 Watts of plate power and probably 2 Watts of heater power, under 4 Watts total.

Without transformers, we need more like 400mA for good low-noise balanced input and output! Plus all those fat tubes will need a lot of heater power. We can reduce the plate voltage a little, but not a lot. Maybe 80 Watts of plate power and 20 watts of heater power, 100 Watts total.

It almost always makes sense to buy the audio transformers than to buy such a large power transformer and suffer all the heat that would come off of a good transformerless mike amp.
 
transformerless tube microphones I have seen or have seen possable fragments of the circuit are more tube to have a tube as best I can tell.

The 149 possable input fragment I saw looks like a charge amp with a 6111 tube using both parts to reduce the gain. My stock mxl 69s have the 12at7 as charge amps set at about a gain of -1 with a SS circuit after. I have not traced the solid state part but it looks like a schoeps type circuit Fet in and two transistor out with other parts. Look at the PDF "microphones" at neumann the 84 and fet 47 section for info on charge amps.

I have not seen the output of the M149/147 but I would guess it is like the tlm103 and gefell TLM type circuit a low output Z amp only one side driven, Z balanced with 47 to 100 ohms in each leg.

I have heard some recordings of the 149 and it is a nice microphone I believe this is because of the k47 capsule and grill. I wonder what it would sound like with the 103 circuit with good parts?

It would be hard to use a TLM type circuit without using a charge amp setup on the tube because the voltage gain would be to high for some solid state buffers.


I have designed a transformerless circuit but I am not going to share it. But I did give some hints. Tubes and transformers do work together very well in tube condenser microphones in some ways, maybe the best way to design one.
 
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