Trick or Treat (and don't eat the rainbow colored candies)...

[JohnRoberts]

I have been following the increasing trend of fentanyl poisonings. I refuse to call it drug overdoses because these people didn't accidentally take too much fentanyl, they thought they were taking something completely different and got poisoned by a fake drug laced with deadly fentanyl.

It does not make sense to poison your customers but the sellers apparently are not rocket scientists, expecting a long career in drug distribution.

There is a popular screed that this is China intentionally poisoning Americans and while that plays well with all the china haters (I don't like China either), it looks like they made an effort to cut back, after exPresident Trump gave them the serious talk a while back... But manufacturing fentanyl is not that complicated and uses chemicals that are commonly used in general drug manufacturing so not banned. Even if China banned some of the key chemicals the Mexican fentanyl cooks could just buy the ingredients from Indian drug makers.

Another screed is that we should just blow up the fentanyl labs... From the reporting I've seen these are not huge capital intensive operations but easy to set up and tear down, or rebuild if needed (after being blown up). A few hundred dollars worth of chemicals can make many thousands of dollars worth of fentanyl. The president of Mexico appears to have tried to appease the cartels.

A question I can't imagine an answer too is where is all the fentanyl we hear about. Reportedly there is enough here to kill everybody living in America today several times over. I hope the news is exaggerating or we could have a real mess when this stuff gets employed to do some real harm.

JR

PS: And why do I see school kids proudly wearing Sinaloa cartel baseball caps in stock footage of young kids in american schools ? It looks like the cartels are in charge down there in Mexico.

 

[scott2000]

wild....I caught that too several months ago....
It was on a blurb about teacher strikes in Arizona or something....... no mention of the kid wearing the airplane hat in class.....

 

[Rusan]

A question I can't imagine an answer too is where is all the fentanyl we hear about. Reportedly there is enough here to kill everybody living in America today several times over. I hope the news is exaggerating or we could have a real mess when this stuff gets employed to do some real harm.

There's definitely a lot of fentanyl in the U.S.A.. A few people are busted for it weekly here in my little Southern town of 30K. Interstate 40, a major coast-to-coast artery, runs nearby. I lost count of how many fentanyl (and drugs laced with it) busts have happened on or along the I-40 corridor in the region during the past two years. About 2 months ago, a joint task force consisting of federal, state, county and municipal law enforcement culminated a year-long investigation and sting operation with something like 40 fentanyl, meth and heroin traffickers arrested and massive amounts of drugs, cash and stolen firearms seized.

Several years ago, a friend who is a deputy sheriff told me that fentanyl was already in the cities and bigger towns in the state, and that it would undoubtedly soon be here. They'd just received training on fentanyl, and were issued Narcan noloxone pens and nasal sprays to keep in their cruisers. A few months later, a traffic stop on I-40 yielded a huge cache of drugs, including about a pound of an unknown powder. My buddy was one of the officers present when they tested it, which turned out to be pure fentanyl. Keep in mind, less than 2 mg can be fatal to individuals with no opioid tolerance, and this was half a kilogram.

Shortly after that occurrence, fentanyl began pouring into our area like a flood, and it's continually grown worse. Not only is the fentanyl itself a huge problem, but it's caused an associated major uptick in breaking/entering, theft of property, burglary and credit card fraud; all the usual crimes seen in areas rife with addiction to hard drugs. We've also seen several fentanyl overdose deaths locally within the past two years. AAMOF, a minister I know who works at a local funeral service officiated the funeral of a young man who died from fentanyl just a few months ago. And, if it's that bad here in Lil' Redneck Town Arkansas, then it goes without saying that every big city across the nation is literally swimming in it.

 

[cyrano]

What's strange is that Fentanyl seems only present in US drug markets.

Another thing that made me think, from stats about drugs confiscated in Australia:

100% of heroin samples contained heroin.
40% of cocaine samples contained cocaine, the rest had no active ingredient.
15% of MDMA samples contained MDMA. The rest had active ingredients, but hundreds of different ones.

 

[JohnRoberts]

What's strange is that Fentanyl seems only present in US drug markets.

Be thankful for that. Fentanyl poisoning is the leading cause of death for young adults in US. Our life expectancy has been dropping for the last couple years. I am not a young adult so not very concerned about accidentally ingesting fentanyl, but I am approaching the target age for the grim reaper and EOL.

Another thing that made me think, from stats about drugs confiscated in Australia:

100% of heroin samples contained heroin.
40% of cocaine samples contained cocaine, the rest had no active ingredient.
15% of MDMA samples contained MDMA. The rest had active ingredients, but hundreds of different ones.

Good news also, drugs should be what they say they are. (A high school friend of mine died from his first experimental use of Heroin back in the mid 60s. It was likely real heroin.)

As I have already suggested the US fentanyl problem is not caused by China alone, but driven by the Mexican cartels, who could source the raw ingredients elsewhere (like India) if cut off. The drug cartels are too powerful for the Mexican government to shut down easily. I still question the business model of poisoning customers but apparently drug use is so pervasive that new dumbasses are willing to try to buy real drugs (like adderal) from dodgy sources.

So I repeat, don't let your kids eat the rainbow candy after trick or treating this year.

JR

 

[okgb]

What I don't get is that somehow Fentanyl makes it here [ Canada ] through the mail, or makes it out of china at all From a strict lawed communist country? It seems that if it undermines our society and stresses resources we'll be a cheaper fire sale busy dealing with our distracting problems [ I have personal family experience with this, it can make your whole life come to a stop ]

 

[JohnRoberts]

Apparently the precursor chemicals to make fentanyl are widely used to make other drugs so still manufactured in multiple countries.

The PRC certainly doesn't mind seeing the west made weaker, but for a few years now have worked to keep their fingerprints off the fentanyl trade unlike when it first began.

Fentanyl deaths certainly seem avoidable but still all too common. In the US I have heard estimates ranging from 150-300 a day. It seems like even the low estimate should deserve more attention.

JR

PS: Sorry about your personal experience, you are not alone.

 

[okgb]

Thanks, although there were a couple of OD's no one perished, thankfully
but until / unless they can get clean you have addicts unable to function in society it's pervasive eroding whole families
not to mention inevitable crimes.

 

[Tubetec]

The West sadly has a long history of wars , profiteering and failed attempts at nation building off the back of the opium and heroin trade ,Monkey see ,monkey do-doo and our shores end up awash with it .
I know several people who are on the 'gear' , I'll still stop for a chat if see them in the street and their not too badly gauched out .

 

[JohnRoberts]

Thanks, although there were a couple of OD's no one perished, thankfully
but until / unless they can get clean you have addicts unable to function in society it's pervasive eroding whole families
not to mention inevitable crimes.

Feel free to ignore my question if it is too personal but did you know of people who intentionally took fentanyl, or was it surreptitiously mixed into other drugs?

Naloxone (Narcan) is now more available than it once was. Sadly parents probably need to keep some in the home first aid kit.

JR

 

[boji]

people who intentionally took fentanyl, or was it surreptitiously mixed into other drugs?

Watched this a few weeks back, it was informative. Rather open conversation with dealers and users. I think it partially answers the above.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Perhaps a synopsis?

JR

 

[boji]

Sales and desire for fentanyl have become normalized in a section of a Canadian city.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Sales and desire for fentanyl have become normalized in a section of a Canadian city.

Are you saying that people are buying and taking fentanyl on purpose, that's what it sounds like?

JR

 

[boji]

Yes, users ask the street for what is cheap and readily available. In this case it is fentanyl, usually cut with god-knows-what, and varies wildly in strength (hence the OD's).

Vancouver's drug laws must be super relaxed, as the first interview in the documentary is with a dealer working a corner, who candidly describes his job and clients. He appears to have no concerns about incriminating himself during a sale.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I still don't understand the business model of killing customers, but if they don't prohibit sales, dumbasses will buy them and die.

JR

PS: Ironically perhaps there would be less overdoses if prices were higher, motivating smaller doses.

 

[Tubetec]

The capitol city of Ireland is around 10 times the size of the next biggest city where I live near ,
social problems and drug addiction is on a different scale there ,
I have a friend who worked as a public defense lawyer for a while , he told me stories of open heroin dealing on the streets near where he used live city centre , the lower level dealers dont care much if their picked up by the cops , at most they get short spell in jail which affords them the oppertunity to smuggle in dope to the prisons Whats worth 10euros on the streets is probably worth three or four times that in jail .
Im not sure if the fentanyl has made to our shores yet ,but its potency makes an even better option for jail bird smugglers . Ive often heard the younger generations say its easier to score a wrap of smack than it is to get weed in certain places . They are trying a few pilot schemes here now to try and make things safer for addicts , they give out a small kit in a plastic box , it contains a small disposable metal spoon , water for injections, a syrynge and needle and some swabs , I think they were also piloting a kind of shooting gallery where people could take the stuff they needed in a more safe and controlled manner .
I ran into someone I knew years ago not so long back , they had been revived with the Narcan around half a dozen times , been in and out of jail for years and wore out their welcome from almost every drug treatment centre in the country , their beyond help at this stage and they have a sense there running out of road fast .
I know another lad , he's only 20 , he has his moms and grandmas hearts broke , I got in contact with an adult treatment centre up the country a few days ago , if he's willing they'll fast track him onto the 16 month program , he's probably only been smoking heroin uptil now ,but he recently ended up getting the boot from his grandmas place and spent some time on the streets or in homeless shelters . Ive tried my best with him over the last 6 months or so to get him to face facts and try and steer him away from the direction he was heading , no luck Im afraid , you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink .

Im not sure whats so difficult to understand about the business model John , the dealers dont care if people die as long as they have fresh faces coming along to replace their lost customers , every person they get hooked means several more of their friends will end up going the same way , anyway fingers crossed we'll get this lad the help he needs soon before more damage is done .

 

[JohnRoberts]

Im not sure whats so difficult to understand about the business model John , the dealers dont care if people die as long as they have fresh faces coming along to replace their lost customers , every person they get hooked means several more of their friends will end up going the same way , anyway fingers crossed we'll get this lad the help he needs soon before more damage is done .

because it is stupid to kill your customers, unless there are even more stupid customers lined behind them willing to gamble with their lives.

Kids do not appreciate their own mortality as much as old farts bumping up against life expectancy.

Cest la vie.

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Good on you for trying to provide some guidance, Tubetec. I recently served jury duty on a complex and serious case (three defendants charged with murder, attempted murder, criminal conspiracy, plus two gun possession charges). We had a pretty diverse jury plus three alternates ranging in age from 20 to 66.

One of the two 20 year olds was an irresponsible mess. He failed to appear on the second day of the trial. The court attempted to contact family members and sent deputies to his apartment and theirs. Finally rounded him up after over an hour while the jury and entire court waited.

He arrived in the jury room, went straight to the restroom for 10 minutes. Came out smiling and talking about how he shouldn't have smoked so much (pot) last night. "I didn't get to bed until 4am" (we were to be assembled in the jury room by 9:15am). He was obviously still high. He grabbed a soda and ate some crackers and kept talking about his partying. No apology to the other jurors who had been stuck in the little jury room for almost two hours waiting. No concern for his potential disruption of a serious criminal trial that might cause a mistrial. Unbelievable.

All day that day and the next several of us older jurors tried to talk to him about consequences and getting himself a better circle of friends. I don't think he got any of it. He was dismissed the third day for saying something about the case in the jury room before deliberations began.

Several days later when the trial ended and during the sentencing hearing immediately following, the defense attorneys stated they would be filing for a retrial (likely because of this dumbass kid).

It is really hard to reform someone who has no desire to change, especially once they're an adult.

 

[JohnRoberts]

The last time I served on jury duty in MS (last century) it was over a drug beef... None of my fellow jurors were apparently drug compromised.

Before the jury was empaneled the judge talked about his service presiding over a drug court. These "Intervention" courts, handle cases involving drug using offenders combining comprehensive supervision, drug testing, treatment services and immediate sanctions and incentives. I could not find any data on success rates, but the program is still around, decades later.

The two defendants in that case were pinched for possession. One dumbass tried to dispose of his stash in the back seat of the squad car.

JR