Tuning Drums

[sr1200]

I don't know the correct place to put this topic, since it's not really technical in nature, nor is it asking any question, just an observation and a shout out to one of our own here.
 
Earlier in the year, i noticed the price of John Roberts drum tuner had dropped a bit. (maybe it didn't and I'm not as frugal as i was in years past...)  What the hey... gonna pick it up.

Received the thing in the mail pretty quickly and started trying to figure out how to work the thing.  After a bit of trial and error and trying to dumb the instructions down to the point a drummer could use it... we got it going. 
I have to say, after having tried the drum dial and other tension reading keys and things... this thing ACTUALLY works.  I've gotten the best drum sounds ever after using the product.  Toms just had power and clarity that i've only happened upon by accident in the past.  Snare was a little harder to get going, but we eventually figured it out. 

My session drummer is a teacher at a number of places including one of the local "School of Rock"'s.  He took the unit to the school and tuned all the kits... was an immediate improvement even on really LOW end drum kits.

So if anyone that records drums on the regular sucks at tuning by ear... seriously check this thing out!  Worth EVERY penny!

*** Now, if we could only convince him to use a rechargeable battery in the thing and put a set screws to hold the dowels in place....

 

[pucho812]

I recall long ago thinking I didn't need such a devise. I'm drummer and so on.  Man enough to admit I was wrong,
It's cool.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I don't know the correct place to put this topic, since it's not really technical in nature, nor is it asking any question, just an observation and a shout out to one of our own here.
 

You need to post this kind of stuff anywhere and everywhere...  8) 8)  (where do I send the check?)

Earlier in the year, i noticed the price of John Roberts drum tuner had dropped a bit. (maybe it didn't and I'm not as frugal as i was in years past...)  What the hey... gonna pick it up.
 

I'm frugal too..... I've dropped the price a few times over the years as I've engineered out cost (with the second generation) and captured more of the NRE...

I introduced it in 2005 for $369 but now in 2018, $150 is still too expensive for many drummers who could buy a new cymbal instead for that much money. 

Received the thing in the mail pretty quickly and started trying to figure out how to work the thing.  After a bit of trial and error and trying to dumb the instructions down to the point a drummer could use it... we got it going. 
 

My original plan was to make it so easy to use that I could print the operating instructions on the faceplate. Regrettably the drums didn't cooperate. 

I have to say, after having tried the drum dial and other tension reading keys and things... this thing ACTUALLY works.  I've gotten the best drum sounds ever after using the product.  Toms just had power and clarity that i've only happened upon by accident in the past.  Snare was a little harder to get going, but we eventually figured it out. 
 

Thank you... but why would anybody ever believe "me" saying that...  8)  You can keep saying it...

My session drummer is a teacher at a number of places including one of the local "School of Rock"'s.  He took the unit to the school and tuned all the kits... was an immediate improvement even on really LOW end drum kits.
 

Again,  I know that.  :  Since it actually reads what the drum is doing it can ignore irregularities that thwart other tuning methods, but a risky thing for me to promise.

So if anyone that records drums on the regular sucks at tuning by ear... seriously check this thing out!  Worth EVERY penny!
 

for recording it also allows you to precisely return a kit to exact voicing for later over dub sessions. I have several studio customers.

*** Now, if we could only convince him to use a rechargeable battery in the thing and put a set screws to hold the dowels in place....

Have you encountered a dead battery?  My first generation RESOTUNE used a 9V battery and had less than wonderful battery life. The second generation uses a class D audio chip that sips current. I use 4 AA batteries in series and push that through a LDO 3.3V regulator, so battery life is much better than average. In principle it could run on only 3 batteries..

To help hold the dowels in place, wrap some tape around the end... It is a precise clearance but not interference fit, so even just the thickness of a layer of tape will help make a tight fit. 

JR

PS: Email me a picture of your kit and I can add it to my user area. You wouldn't be the first GroupDIY member up there.  https://circularscience.com/reviews-and-users

 

[sr1200]

Have you had anyone try to buy or license the device from you?
If not, you might get a call soon.  My session guy is a DW endorsee and he was RAVING to his rep and JG about the thing.

Would you mind if we did a shoot out video of the product against the other things (drum dial, tunebot and one other one that is just a lug tension meter)?

Ill try the tape thing. Its not a real problem on the smaller drums (obv). but the floor and kick were kinds of a pain... good to know.

 

[shabtek]

A good tutorial video for resotune would be appreciated

 

[JohnRoberts]

Have you had anyone try to buy or license the device from you?
If not, you might get a call soon.  My session guy is a DW endorsee and he was RAVING to his rep and JG about the thing.

I have many DW customers using my tuner... It's easier to make good drums sound great. 

Would you mind if we did a shoot out video of the product against the other things (drum dial, tunebot and one other one that is just a lug tension meter)?

The drum dial inventor (Steve Fischer) is cool. He bought both first and second generation RESOTUNEs and gave me a quote for my user webpage.  Here is a picture of his tympani with a RESOTUNE tuning it

I doubt the Tunebot guys would be very friendly (they sued a friend of mine who was selling a smartphone tuning app. )

I am not from the video generation (I'm too old), but some of my customers are video oriented and have trouble with my written owners manual.  Over the years a few customers have made youtube videos, but nothing very professional looking. If your video turns out good, I would be glad to link to it, and/or maybe host it on my website...

Being done by an actual customer should make it fair. I try not to overtly bad mouth specific competitors, again why should people take my word for it?  Maybe you can be subtle about the comparison and not name names or show the tunebot (we know the outcome).

Ill try the tape thing. Its not a real problem on the smaller drums (obv). but the floor and kick were kinds of a pain... good to know.

It works, I should put tape on the dowels before shipping (note to self).

Thank you, I appreciate your enthusiasm...and kind words. 

JR 

 

[boji]

for recording it also allows you to precisely return a kit to exact voicing for later over dub sessions.

Ok yeah that's very cool.  I've obsessed with drum tunings to songs, but never built a catalog.  RT's on my wishlist.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Ok yeah that's very cool.  I've obsessed with drum tunings to songs, but never built a catalog.  RT's on my wishlist.

You can objectively characterize and completely restore the tuning (voicing) of any two head drum by restoring the top and bottom head 1st overtone resonance frequency/note. AKA vibration mode (1,1)

Lug mode (1,1) 1.593x fundamental    This is the next higher resonance above the fundamental that drums vibrate in. This resonance is the one used for matching lug pitch in various tuning strategies.

The other vibration modes (like lower fundamental) interact with top and bottom tension so is not convenient to recall voicing with. Lug resonance  1,1  (on both heads) is completely capable of perfect matches for later overdubs.

JR

 

[boji]

Adjusting each lug for identical return time signature

Resotune. 'RT'  Return time.  ;D

 

[boji]

Totally imagine you've toyed with the idea of a geared ring with stepper motors.  Too expensive / complicated to fab?

If I was a drum tech I'd love to put a ring over the snare and push a button.

Don't know why but it's making me think of this timepiece:
https://youtu.be/1moRfIXCfak?t=1057

 

[JohnRoberts]

Resotune. 'RT'  Return time.  ;D

Name is unrelated to that... "return time" was my attempt to dumb down phase shift to something more understandable to drummers.

I detect and track the phase shift between the sine wave I am sending to excite the drum head and the sine wave coming back i pick up with my microphone. Changing lug tension alternately causes the phase measured at that lug to lead or lag depending on sharp or flat tension. This allows me to literally advise the drummer what direction to turn the lug to attain optimal match with the internal reference and therefore the other lugs.

By using two speakers, one on either side of the lug being cleared, I acoustically couple to the drumhead and isolate each lug for measurement/adjustment one at a time. I tried this using only one speaker and the clearing adjustment did not converge. Like other tuning methods the lugs interacted and you had to chase the optimal adjustment around the head.

For better and worse this is as small/simple as I can make this and still work to my satisfaction (smaller speakers don't work either... I tried), not much risk of a smartphone app ever coming close to doing this (while they all say they tune perfectly  : ). 

JR

PS: The name RESOTUNE was thought up by a young drummer friend of mine... I wanted to call it TT for "technical tuner"...but deferred to his judgement.

PPS: I have another friend who has begged me to make a self tuning drum (just push a button)...  Possible but I would probably use a different technology and it would still be crazy expensive. As I arm wrestle drummers just to get $150 for a tuner that actually works,  I can't imagine making a multi thousand dollar specialized drum that might sound OK, or not? 

A specialized rig  that you clamp on top of a drum has better chances but accommodating all the sundry drum sizes and lug configurations would be painful. 

Cheapest and easiest, I could control a small motorized screwdriver with lug attachment to automatically adjust each lug... but this is tiny benefit when you can just look at the colored LEDs to see what direction and how much to turn each lug manually.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Totally imagine you've toyed with the idea of a geared ring with stepper motors.  Too expensive / complicated to fab?

If I was a drum tech I'd love to put a ring over the snare and push a button.

That's very similar to what Gibson did to their guitars, and was ultimately rejected by musicians.

 

[emrr]

The Resotune is a great addition to any studio, and really allows even non-drummers to dial in a decent tone from any kit in need, pretty quickly.  It's a life-saver with those crap out of tune amateur kits that show up from time to time. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

The Resotune is a great addition to any studio, and really allows even non-drummers to dial in a decent tone from any kit in need, pretty quickly.  It's a life-saver with those crap out of tune amateur kits that show up from time to time.

Again thanks for the kind words...

JR

 

[dmp]

Been playing with snare tuning with some friends and wonder what people think about it. Particularly tuning the tone of the snare for how it will sit in the mix. Most rock or Americana seems to have the snare tuned pretty high so it doesn't fight the guitars.
To be clear, I'm not talking about tuning the snare properly to resonate (i.e. equal tension).
I'm talking about tuning the snare up or down to get the pitch of the snare to sit in the mix in a good place. We were using a supraphonic (which is such a great snare).

 

[JohnRoberts]

Been playing with snare tuning with some friends and wonder what people think about it. Particularly tuning the tone of the snare for how it will sit in the mix. Most rock or Americana seems to have the snare tuned pretty high so it doesn't fight the guitars.
To be clear, I'm not talking about tuning the snare properly to resonate (i.e. equal tension).
I'm talking about tuning the snare up or down to get the pitch of the snare to sit in the mix in a good place. We were using a supraphonic (which is such a great snare).

You are asking about "voicing", pitch selection... I remain agnostic about such things, I just sell the tools to tune with.

Here is a link to a classic old school tuning advice with a whole section about snares.http://circularscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Drum-tuning-bible.pdf

JR

 

[sr1200]

Just want to add something for DMP...
One of the last songs that we did using Johns device, we were able to tune the kit to the key of the song... what a difference that made!  As far as the snare voice/pitch goes, it really depends on the song and what it calls for (like everything else in audio).  Take the deftones.... a big fat bottom end snare wouldn't really work with that (or any fast/heavy music as it would get in the way of thick distorted guitars and bass)  Get a folk band and beef that sucker up by all means... experimentation is half the fun of running a session.