buildafriend
Well-known member
ruffrecords said:
They offer single boards for 33usd to engineering students. Maybe you know one?
very small run PCB manufacture
- Thread starter guitarmaker
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
They offer single boards for 33usd to engineering students. Maybe you know one?
> http://pcbcart.com/ Home page under Easy Prototype "No tooling cost"
No tooling FEE, indeed.
"Tooling cost", to me, is like making Ford fenders. It costs a million bucks to carve, harden, and polish the stampers. Then it costs ten bucks a fender. If priced directly, the first buyer pays a million and ten bucks, all other buyers pay ten bucks (plus profit, warehouse, shipping....) That plan would never find the "first buyer", so Ford spreads-out the cost. If they expect to make 10,000 of a specific fender, they front the megabuck then get it back as $100 on each fender.
Integrated circuits, same. They don't use stampers but the set of masks costs a big bundle of money. A fabless designer has to pay the foundry to turn his tape-ups into a mask-set. When the mask is run, you may get 1,000 chips for $100, but you also have to recover the mask-set cost.
PCB has never been tooling-cost crazy. (There were always other ways to nail parts together, even P-2-P hand-wiring.) But still you had negatives and pink developer. These days it may be laser, but someone has to tell the laser what to lase. Once the negative or program is done, PCBs may be run at low cost per each. Whether you call a laser program "tooling" in the sense of a fender-stamper, or not, there's still cost.
Look at PCBcart's numbers:
Qty:5 Tooling cost:$0 Unit Price:$11.39 Sub-Total:$56.95
Qty:10 Tooling cost:$0 Unit Price:$7.27 Sub-Total:$72.70
Qty:50 Tooling cost:$0 Unit Price:$3.97 Sub-Total:$198.50
Qty:100 Tooling cost:$0 Unit Price:$3.55 Sub-Total:$355.00
I read this as $3 per board and $40+ to do the job at all.
Qty:5 5*$3= $15, +$40 = $55 (vs $56.95)
Qty:10 10*$3= $30, +$40 = $70 (vs $72.70)
Qty:50 50*$3= $150, +$40 = $190 (vs $198.50)
Qty:100 100*$3= $300, +$40 = $340 (vs $355.00)
OK, the true formula may be closer to $3.10/ea plus $45/job. On a larger board I seem to get $8/each plus $45/job.
Now that $45 may just be what it costs to get employees off their butts and onto your project.
"No tooling cost" seems to just be a sales-slogan. They wrap all per-job costs into the quote, which is higher per-unit for small runs so they get their costs covered.
No tooling FEE, indeed.
"Tooling cost", to me, is like making Ford fenders. It costs a million bucks to carve, harden, and polish the stampers. Then it costs ten bucks a fender. If priced directly, the first buyer pays a million and ten bucks, all other buyers pay ten bucks (plus profit, warehouse, shipping....) That plan would never find the "first buyer", so Ford spreads-out the cost. If they expect to make 10,000 of a specific fender, they front the megabuck then get it back as $100 on each fender.
Integrated circuits, same. They don't use stampers but the set of masks costs a big bundle of money. A fabless designer has to pay the foundry to turn his tape-ups into a mask-set. When the mask is run, you may get 1,000 chips for $100, but you also have to recover the mask-set cost.
PCB has never been tooling-cost crazy. (There were always other ways to nail parts together, even P-2-P hand-wiring.) But still you had negatives and pink developer. These days it may be laser, but someone has to tell the laser what to lase. Once the negative or program is done, PCBs may be run at low cost per each. Whether you call a laser program "tooling" in the sense of a fender-stamper, or not, there's still cost.
Look at PCBcart's numbers:
Qty:5 Tooling cost:$0 Unit Price:$11.39 Sub-Total:$56.95
Qty:10 Tooling cost:$0 Unit Price:$7.27 Sub-Total:$72.70
Qty:50 Tooling cost:$0 Unit Price:$3.97 Sub-Total:$198.50
Qty:100 Tooling cost:$0 Unit Price:$3.55 Sub-Total:$355.00
I read this as $3 per board and $40+ to do the job at all.
Qty:5 5*$3= $15, +$40 = $55 (vs $56.95)
Qty:10 10*$3= $30, +$40 = $70 (vs $72.70)
Qty:50 50*$3= $150, +$40 = $190 (vs $198.50)
Qty:100 100*$3= $300, +$40 = $340 (vs $355.00)
OK, the true formula may be closer to $3.10/ea plus $45/job. On a larger board I seem to get $8/each plus $45/job.
Now that $45 may just be what it costs to get employees off their butts and onto your project.
"No tooling cost" seems to just be a sales-slogan. They wrap all per-job costs into the quote, which is higher per-unit for small runs so they get their costs covered.
Huh. I *think* I ran the essentially similar job both ways, Prototype and Standard.
At Qty:5 the price is the same within a buck, but at Qty:100 it is MUCH cheaper to pay the $35 "Tooling cost" added to the "Standard" process--
Prototype PCB
Qty:5 Tooling cost:$0 Unit Price:$11.39 Sub-Total:$56.95
Qty:100 Tooling cost:$0 Unit Price:$3.55 Sub-Total:$355.00
Standard PCB
Qty:5 Tooling cost:$35.14 Unit Price:$4.26 Sub-Total:$56.44
Qty:100 Tooling cost:$35.14 Unit Price:$0.45 Sub-Total:$80.14
This formula is more complicated. You can order just one PCB but it is stupid-expensive, cost comes way down at two; and the marginal cost for a third or fourth or fifth is under a buck:
Qty:1 Tooling cost:$35.14 Unit Price:$222.64 Sub-Total:$257.78
Qty:2 Tooling cost:$35.14 Unit Price:$9.65 Sub-Total:$54.44
Qty:3 Tooling cost:$35.14 Unit Price:$6.66 Sub-Total:$55.12
Qty:4 Tooling cost:$35.14 Unit Price:$5.16 Sub-Total:$55.78
If you want just one "prototype", two to five "Standard" is marginally cheaper than five "Prototype". Above that the "Standard" is much cheaper.
Better check for your specific size, finish, options. I hear a lot of gears behind the quote maker and they may run fast/slow for certain combinations, or some options may not be available in one process or the other. Also some web-quotes may not really be allowed.
At Qty:5 the price is the same within a buck, but at Qty:100 it is MUCH cheaper to pay the $35 "Tooling cost" added to the "Standard" process--
Prototype PCB
Qty:5 Tooling cost:$0 Unit Price:$11.39 Sub-Total:$56.95
Qty:100 Tooling cost:$0 Unit Price:$3.55 Sub-Total:$355.00
Standard PCB
Qty:5 Tooling cost:$35.14 Unit Price:$4.26 Sub-Total:$56.44
Qty:100 Tooling cost:$35.14 Unit Price:$0.45 Sub-Total:$80.14
This formula is more complicated. You can order just one PCB but it is stupid-expensive, cost comes way down at two; and the marginal cost for a third or fourth or fifth is under a buck:
Qty:1 Tooling cost:$35.14 Unit Price:$222.64 Sub-Total:$257.78
Qty:2 Tooling cost:$35.14 Unit Price:$9.65 Sub-Total:$54.44
Qty:3 Tooling cost:$35.14 Unit Price:$6.66 Sub-Total:$55.12
Qty:4 Tooling cost:$35.14 Unit Price:$5.16 Sub-Total:$55.78
If you want just one "prototype", two to five "Standard" is marginally cheaper than five "Prototype". Above that the "Standard" is much cheaper.
Better check for your specific size, finish, options. I hear a lot of gears behind the quote maker and they may run fast/slow for certain combinations, or some options may not be available in one process or the other. Also some web-quotes may not really be allowed.
