wanted: U273s schematics

[bradzatitagain]

Looking for scheemos for the S version of the U273. My needs for these is in line with their original purpose: to limit interview/sound for picture dialogue for subjects who have had little exposure to microphones, so I don't have high hopes of turning these into swank recording gear, just need to troubleshoot and have set-up reference.

rgrds,
Brad

 

[bradzatitagain]

needy bump :roll:

 

[ciminosound]

Try here

http://bloemsma.8m.com/schematics/u273s_schematic.pdf

 

[soundguy]

brad, you'd need to really modify the a/r times if you hope to have them at all usable for dialogue recording. If you know what you are doing on a digital system you really shouldnt need a limiter at all. If you set your zero cal at -18 FS there's no way you are ever gonna over load that if your gain structure is right.

dave

 

[bradzatitagain]

[quote author="soundguy"]brad, you'd need to really modify the a/r times if you hope to have them at all usable for dialogue recording. If you know what you are doing on a digital system you really shouldnt need a limiter at all. If you set your zero cal at -18 FS there's no way you are ever gonna over load that if your gain structure is right.

dave[/quote]

Dave, signals are split to cam/recorder for video; pilot tone wild sync for 16mm, Tobin cam motor at 23.976fps. Nagra w/Tobin pilot tone generator, no digital recorders. Sony cams but the cam sound's never what we use in audio post.

Most interviewees in this doc couldn't keep a level tone of voice if there lives depended on it. They're all recovering from cancer (or dying from it) so I don't give them any kind of **** at all and just let them rip. Usual clip stuff, bursts of laughter, loudness for emphasis, like they're having a conversation in a bar. No mic training; producers want max emo.

Anyway, if these are broadcast limiters I'm quizzed on why the attack release would need to be mod'd.

Thnx cinimo!

 

[gang of elk]

the few 'fixed' broadcast limiters i've seen have a *really* slow release and are designed to prevent program overmodulation, not to even-out speech. so i wouldn't be surprised if dave is right on this one. mind you, i say that knowing nothing about the unit you mention.. just a generalization about broadcast limiters.

 

[bradzatitagain]

Cool, thnx. I'm sure Dave's right too, I just didn't know why.

 

[soundguy]

those units were definitley for program material and probably for radio. I used to have a few annd thought they were terrible for music they'd be absolutely worthless for your intended use, they are very very very very slow. You really want to peak limit production sound if you have to, there's no acceptable explanation I have ever heard for keeping dialogue compressed, limiters are handy for when people slap their hands on tables and such. You'd be much better off using something like an 1176 for what you want to do, but no matter how "skill-less" your talent is, if you are recording on a digital system there's no good reason to compress production sound that Ive ever come across. If you peak your digital meters at -18 FS and you go over, its because you did something wrong, not because the talent is screwy. Most docs you will ever hear are recorded without limiting because no doc guy wants to carry any extra **** around with him, like a limiter, and most/all limiters in production sound equipment are pretty terrible, with the exception of the peak limiter in the fostex pd-4 which does exactly what it should. Back to the subject, if you do decide to use the 273, you'll want to mod the attack and release times into something usable for dialogue. Its a diode limiter, so they are not very clean, and its a german piece, so its gonna be darker than ****.
you'll be MUCH better off limiting in post, the last thing you want to have happen is to have your handling noise on a boom pole keying the compressor or to amplify clothing rustles on the talent because you are limiting the dialogue. I just reread your post, if you are using a nagra, use the limiter in the nagra, its pretty intense, its the 12'oclock position on the transport control on 4.2 and 4-s machines. If you are convinced you MUST use a limiter, try to use something that you dont have to screw with to get it right, and 1176 would work well but youll really be better off without it, especially so if its a doc.

dave

 

[NewYorkDave]

This might be fairly useless advice to you, if you're not looking to buy new and/or you want portable instead of rackmount, but I'll tell you anyway... The Orban 8200ST is superb for dialogue with untrained talent, and it's easy to set up. We have one in our studio and one in our truck, and just about everything we document involves non-professional speakers, high ambient levels and sudden unexpected peaks (coughing, mics being hit, stuff being dropped on tables, etc.). Try it out sometime if you get a chance.

 

[bradzatitagain]

Dave & Dave, 10-4 that. Compressing and de-essing in post, much fiddling with levels to get rid of the noises when they scratch their itches & such, etc. I was trying to avoid the Nagra limiter, it's what I've been mooshing stuff with so far. The occasional manic laughter or shout distorts all to hell if my levels are hot enough to pick up the quiet meek parts of the narrative.

One camera-op, one tape-op, one interviewer, one overwhelmed highly emotional interviewee. Mics are on stands, a little atypical, no wireless stuff, no field audio stuff. NYD's Orban would be cool but this is zero-budget n.f.p. (in more ways than one) stuff. No glama on this field trip...

I'm splitting with V274's, I like them; I'll try the 1176's. Dig out the V.People Dynamites, maybe.

So anyway, are these U274's and U273's, et al, only good for squishing drums? Same for the later stuff like the Filtek BKE's?

 

[soundguy]

I never found them good for anything, perhaps thats just me.

You know that on a nagra the modulometer doesnt read like a VU, right? You want to peak your recording with the neeedle at 12oclock in the window, not towards the right like you would expect with a standard VU. If you are going far enough into the nagra limiter to the point that you actually hear it, youve got major issues. If the nagra limiter isnt helping you you've got to really look closer at your gain structure, you've got the recorder set way too hot.

dave

 

[bradzatitagain]

[quote author="soundguy"]I never found them good for anything, perhaps thats just me.

If the nagra limiter isnt helping you you've got to really look closer at your gain structure, you've got the recorder set way too hot.

dave[/quote]

Meant to say I've got distortion without limiting, scoozi.

 

[Rob Flinn]

Looking for pin out info & or diagram for a U273s.  This info isn't on Kubarths site & is unavailable at the link above now.

 

[Rob Flinn]

No longer needed, I Managed to find the diagram.