pucho812
Well-known member
Now that's been eaten up by uli B and is doing clones is it worth keeping older pre uli KT gear?
what to do with old KT gear
- Thread starter pucho812
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No. Please send me your old DN780 for proper disposal. ;D
pucho812
Well-known member
mjrippe said:
LOL. Seriously is really worth it or would it devalue now it's under the uli B thumb?
Andy Peters
Well-known member
pucho812 said:
If the concern is that the older kit won't be repaired by the new owners of KT, then I could see devaluation. Of course the real reason for devaluation is that a shit ton of it is coming out of four racks because most analog FOH and monitors packages are being replaced with digital mixers.
Who did Uli buy it from? I don't think K/T has been the original K/T for some time. 8)pucho812 said:
It was a premium brand in the US because it was priced higher. It was priced higher because it was imported from UK (IIRC). The higher price position led to more professional customers and professional features to keep those customers happy. It was kind of an accidental premium product, while a simply more expensive POS would not have survived the higher price.
Back in the day there were so many DOA after the shipment across the pond, that the importer instituted a 100% QA test after landing here. This improved the reputation because more of them worked correctly out of the box. We kind of take that for granted from modern equipment.
JR
KT isn't going away, or turning into a clone factory...
In fact, Music Group has invested in a new, much larger building, a boatload of new development stuff and none of the current KT engineers ran off, as far as I can tell.
I mean, it's Ulli, but it's not Harman.
And let's face it. The market is digital. Tried selling a 32 channel analog board lately?
In fact, Music Group has invested in a new, much larger building, a boatload of new development stuff and none of the current KT engineers ran off, as far as I can tell.
I mean, it's Ulli, but it's not Harman.
And let's face it. The market is digital. Tried selling a 32 channel analog board lately?
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I believe KT was part of EVI, which has been taken over by Bosch. My understanding is that the takeover by Ulrich B. has been welcome by many employees.JohnRoberts said:
Not only that. It was also a premium product in many European countries, where the landed cost was not that high. IMO it originates from the Pink Floyd/Brit Rox connection, where a standard kit was Midas mixer, KT EQ, BSS x-over, HH amps and Martin speakers.
Indeed! It was the case with anything that came from the UK; it was the result of a silly employment policy. Companies would deliberately hire low-pay unskilled workers, counting on a team of highly-trained staff to sort out the problems before the product went out.
One typical example of the consequences of such a scheme is that one day, my QA technician devoted to mixers showed me a "Tested" mixer with a master module that could never have worked, since there were a number of missing components.
Investigation showed that the guy who did the packing had scratched the master module with his cutter; he then went on the production line, picked an unscratched but untested module and put it in the mixer.
gar381
Well-known member
pucho812 said:
I'll never get rid of my DN27As
I haven't found a better graphic yet !!GARY
pucho812
Well-known member
cyrano said:
so the 1176 and pultec they are currently selling is not a clone?
He likes to be called "Uli", so people think of him as a chum, not as the ruthless (though clever) businessman he really is. For me it's Ulrich and that's what he's always gonna be.cyrano said:
And who knows what Harman has in stores, now they are owned by Samsung...
Agree with Gary. The DN27(a) is the best graphic ever. Really smooth sounding. Only 3 op amps in the audio path, & an inductor in every band.
pucho812 said:
Most everything sold is a clone when it comes to preamps and compressors. It's rare to see a really innovative design.
The smaller companies in audio do try from time to time. But since they have no big marketing budget, most people don't even notice. And in the rare case they hit gold, some corporate shark will buy them, or run their business in the ground. That has happened very recently, fi, with a startup that was going to sell a meal in a box, until Amazon trademarked the name of their product and started selling their idea worldwide...
I got 7 patents while working at peavey... That said peavey customers did not appreciate innovation from peavey, instead preferring me-too products that were better values. (It took me a couple years to figure that out). :cyrano said:
yup... developing new product markets takes time, money, and effort. Peavey had several innovative products that were clearly ahead of their time and sold poorly without marketing support.
Actually I think you are talking about "Blue Apron" who recently went public. The business has zero moat, nothing patented or protectable. Amazon recently bought Whole Foods, (actually just before the blue apron IPO). The Blue Apron IPO price started sagging even before the stock offering because the business concept didn't look as strong as before amazon entered the food business. They went public anyhow (so founders could cash out) and the stock price has dropped well below the offering price since then.
Competing against Amazon is not trivial (or very wise).
Another example is SNAP chat... Facebook tried to buy them and they declined... now facebook is competing with their own version... If you want to run with the big dogs you need some unique defendable technology (and deep pockets to pay the lawyers).
JR
PS: People think of Apple as an innovative company but they copied many of their best product ideas, they just did a superior version of them... Sometimes they settle the lawsuits, sometimes they just buy the company they copied after kicking their ass in the marketplace.
I understand the game.
But even ip won't protect you. Xircom, fi, was a very innovative and profitable company. Unfortunately, Intel wanted to get into networking. Xircom got taken over, closed, ip transferred to Intel. Intel put it in it's patent portfolio and stopped development.
Same type of operation like Harman ran on AKG, Soundcraft, Studer and a lot of others.
It's a fast track to loss of knowledge. Most of the Xircom patents can't even be used, because the knowledge behind them is simply gone. Evaporated with time.
And that's a shame. It seems today's engineers can't even design a blinkenlight without at least an 8-bit processor...
But even ip won't protect you. Xircom, fi, was a very innovative and profitable company. Unfortunately, Intel wanted to get into networking. Xircom got taken over, closed, ip transferred to Intel. Intel put it in it's patent portfolio and stopped development.
Same type of operation like Harman ran on AKG, Soundcraft, Studer and a lot of others.
It's a fast track to loss of knowledge. Most of the Xircom patents can't even be used, because the knowledge behind them is simply gone. Evaporated with time.
And that's a shame. It seems today's engineers can't even design a blinkenlight without at least an 8-bit processor...
madswitcher
Well-known member
JohnRoberts said:
I seem to remember that it is worse that that John: I am sure I heard on a BBC programme that there isn't (wasn't) any technology on an apple phone that was not originally invented by some form of public/government subscription. Apple's ' 'innovation' was one of packaging.
Mike
> with a startup that was going to sell a meal in a box,
I remember, 1959, Sequoya National Forest, you could go to the back door of the dining hall and get a "box lunch" to take on your hike. Sandwich, apple, cookie. The concept and name was not new at the time.
Not to mention, at the same time, the "TV Dinner" which pretended to be a meal in a box.
> think of Apple as an innovative company but they copied many of their best product ideas, they just did a superior version
I really don't need an innovative meal-- just a decent one. The one at the park was fine for the purpose but totally local. The TV Dinners were universal and universally awful. They are getting better but no breakthrough in sight. (They now make single-dish dinners so pasteurized that they sit on the shelf for years without getting worse, and without getting better than the globby old frozen version.)
I remember, 1959, Sequoya National Forest, you could go to the back door of the dining hall and get a "box lunch" to take on your hike. Sandwich, apple, cookie. The concept and name was not new at the time.
Not to mention, at the same time, the "TV Dinner" which pretended to be a meal in a box.
> think of Apple as an innovative company but they copied many of their best product ideas, they just did a superior version
I really don't need an innovative meal-- just a decent one. The one at the park was fine for the purpose but totally local. The TV Dinners were universal and universally awful. They are getting better but no breakthrough in sight. (They now make single-dish dinners so pasteurized that they sit on the shelf for years without getting worse, and without getting better than the globby old frozen version.)
The hook for Blue Apron is that they assemble the ingredients and recipe for you to cook a meal with in your own kitchen. This will appeal to ________ with arguably, fresher healthier meals , that you don't have shop for, and you get the "experience" (bragging rights) of cooking it yourself.. Also good for uncertain cooks to learn by doing.PRR said:
Blue apron will crash and burn since they don't have the ability to scale up the food sourcing and distribution channels before Amazon eats their lunch (using Whole foods infrastructure). Whole foods (whole paycheck) is located in wealthy cities so a good fit for the packaged ingredient kit meals.
-------
There actually is a noveau TV dinner that doesn't suck, but it requires a steam cooker to reheat/cook. https://www.home-tech.com/21138/ditch-tv-dinners-try-steam-cooking-with-thermador-steam-ovens/
Restaurants use these steam cookers in their kitchens to reheat or finish pre cooked servings without drying them out. I don't think many consumers will invest in the hardware to steam cook at home, but there may be a niche market for it among the very wealthy (build the steam cooker into your $10k trophy stove).
Restaurants have to be sucking wind just like movie theaters and malls as kids today let their fingers do the walking (via WWW). Even if the restaurants were able to capture a major fraction of their previous customers with take out/home delivery, they would still lose their ass because they make their real profit from selling drinks along with the meals that take out orders don't take out the booze..
The world is changing fast... don't blink...
JR
Andy Peters
Well-known member
madswitcher said:
Let's be honest here -- remember what cell phones looked like before the first iPhone was introduced?
And notice what they all look like now?
Oh, gee, why does every smartphone user interface look like the iPhone's?
I don't mean to diminish what Apple has accomplished... It is even harder to take somebody else's idea and kick their ass with it. 8)madswitcher said:
Creative labs invented the MP3 player,
the mouse and WYSIWYG interface was borrowed from a Xerox Palo Alto research project.
Apple copied and made them "better"... Behringer copied products and made them "cheaper", hurting many small companies with iconic products who were not ready to manufacture in China.
Yes, even with patent protection, and money, you can lose... I've told this story before about how I invented the LEDs over every graphic EQ slider to indicate feedback, and Peavey Patented it... Then Uli copied it, and got his (one of his engineer's) own patent for a minor variant. In court Uli's lawyer did a better job than Hartley's lawyer... So Uli won, (because he didn't lose).
This all went down after I quit Peavey as I would have probably injected myself into litigating this. I still feel strongly about this. But it's just business and progress.... Don't blink :
JR
> why does every smartphone user interface look like the iPhone's?
Not quite.
My Android, first time I put USB to a PC, I could see "all" files. Like that for a year. Then I did a major little video project. When I plugged-in to get the videos, now I *only* saw camera files!! What changed?? I did get the videos off, but it bugged me. Turns out there is a well documented change in Android and you go to Settings to make a choice: Charge, MTP, or PTP. But there is no such option in my Android! So one day when I was peeved-off about something else, I fiddled a while. On mine, *right* after you plug the USB, there are nearly invisible icons in the status bar. They may be USB symbols-- too tiny to be sure. I poked, got lucky, and got my MTP back.
And Apple iPhone does it different since they have their own i-Pod derived protocol.
So yeah: my LG apes the iPhone shape and curves and much of the graphical interface. But the places you shove a screwdriver, to get stuff to work, changes on a whim. (DR Trimmer kept their literal screwdriver-hole in the same place for 15 years.)
Not quite.
My Android, first time I put USB to a PC, I could see "all" files. Like that for a year. Then I did a major little video project. When I plugged-in to get the videos, now I *only* saw camera files!! What changed?? I did get the videos off, but it bugged me. Turns out there is a well documented change in Android and you go to Settings to make a choice: Charge, MTP, or PTP. But there is no such option in my Android! So one day when I was peeved-off about something else, I fiddled a while. On mine, *right* after you plug the USB, there are nearly invisible icons in the status bar. They may be USB symbols-- too tiny to be sure. I poked, got lucky, and got my MTP back.
And Apple iPhone does it different since they have their own i-Pod derived protocol.
So yeah: my LG apes the iPhone shape and curves and much of the graphical interface. But the places you shove a screwdriver, to get stuff to work, changes on a whim. (DR Trimmer kept their literal screwdriver-hole in the same place for 15 years.)
