What's the deal with Drip Electronics?

[iampoor1]

They have an exorbinant price tag, for a very mediocre (and thats being extremely generous) level of thought and quality that go into them.
Basically, they giver you the impression that they are quality products by being expensive...when the documentation (that should be flawless at the prices he charges) is generally pretty useless.

 

[AGMuisc]

I had and have zero problems with any of my drip builds. They all sound phenomenal and have been flawlessly functioning for nearly a decade. A 670 (which was dropped on it's face by UPS), still works within spec, matched ge 5 star 6386 quads, and yes i had to install the lat/vert routing and switch, was not a problem, 4 La2s, each of which has been A/B d with original vitntage units and new production units, Pultecs.. etc. I can't speak to the 175b or others, which I still wouldn't hesitate to buy a used one to clean up for $1000. To me the boards were what it was about, the traces and laminate are very high quality, and for the boards that stuck to the reference designs, they were exceptional. There were additional pathways/options at times that were built in, and if you weren't intimately familiar with the original designs, i suppose it could get very confusing. There were also semi - incomplete directions at times, mostly on changing/developing clones/designs, but at least the docs that I have were pretty thorough and complete. Another note-- The Collective cases, and others... were never that great. they looked fine but the stantion holes and casing taps for screws were often off. Cheesy meter housing cutouts were sloppy, punches for transformer mounting were wrong. It wasn't the PCB. Also the mouser ETC BOMs and parts sourcing is a continual clusterFK as things are constantly discontinued, sloppy and impossible to keep up with. Probably better to start with a Hariball 1176 or something simple. And if you really want and exact replica of something inch per inch, pull the OG schematics and Data sheets and get a CNC. Farichilds, all still out there. And if you want to spend 36k, go buy the one from sweetwater. Undisclosed custom transformer specs and highly unlikely matched jj6386 tubes.

 

[shoetique]

I had and have zero problems with any of my drip builds. They all sound phenomenal and have been flawlessly functioning for nearly a decade. A 670 (which was dropped on it's face by UPS), still works within spec, matched ge 5 star 6386 quads, and yes i had to install the lat/vert routing and switch, was not a problem, 4 La2s, each of which has been A/B d with original vitntage units and new production units, Pultecs.. etc. I can't speak to the 175b or others, which I still wouldn't hesitate to buy a used one to clean up for $1000. To me the boards were what it was about, the traces and laminate are very high quality, and for the boards that stuck to the reference designs, they were exceptional. There were additional pathways/options at times that were built in, and if you weren't intimately familiar with the original designs, i suppose it could get very confusing. There were also semi - incomplete directions at times, mostly on changing/developing clones/designs, but at least the docs that I have were pretty thorough and complete. Another note-- The Collective cases, and others... were never that great. they looked fine but the stantion holes and casing taps for screws were often off. Cheesy meter housing cutouts were sloppy, punches for transformer mounting were wrong. It wasn't the PCB. Also the mouser ETC BOMs and parts sourcing is a continual clusterFK as things are constantly discontinued, sloppy and impossible to keep up with. Probably better to start with a Hariball 1176 or something simple. And if you really want and exact replica of something inch per inch, pull the OG schematics and Data sheets and get a CNC. Farichilds, all still out there. And if you want to spend 36k, go buy the one from sweetwater. Undisclosed custom transformer specs and highly unlikely matched jj6386 tubes

Hey Alex!

The builds I've completed definitely sound good but this forum and others make it very clear that most people are never able to get theirs running due to lack of documentation.

Yours is definitely a very different experience than most people have with their Drip builds. People find it difficult to properly build and test something if they aren't provided accurate schematics or instructions. Leveraging the schematics of a vintage unit is usually insufficient. There are a lot of differences between the circuits Drip sells and their vintage counterparts. For example, his EQ1 has a lot of differences from the original Pultec.

Your post is radically different from other posts I've seen talking about Drip. I thought it might be fun to have ChatGPT compare your post to an old email I had kicking around from Gregory. Here are the results of that comparison:



lmfao

 

[ruffrecords]

Hey Alex!

The builds I've completed definitely sound good but this forum and others make it very clear that most people are never able to get theirs running due to lack of documentation.

The other major lack is lack of support from the supplier. Lot's of people build my designs and I do my best to provide complete documentation but I still often get queries about a build. Some are due to language differences, some due to skill level differences and some are where I have left something out of the documentation. In all cases I try osrt out a solution for the builder. I have also helped several people who have built DRIP boards and I have to say the documentation is often confusing and incomplete and DRIP simply do not reply to emails. IMHO that is an appalling business practice.

Cheers

Ian

 

[AGMuisc]

Agreed on most of this. If I wasn't so familiar with the builds, I could see the directions were often confusing. He was good about responding to my emails when I did have a few questions. I never really thought of DRIP as being in the business of selling step by step directions inherently, moreso the boards and connecting them with some parts, but that was just my own perception of it, so it met my expectations. At any rate maybe I was just lucky to have a positive experience.... And no.... I'm not Greg from Drip. Maybe Chat GPT will fill in the gaps on the directions that are confusing people. To add a note on the punctuation, grammar etc.. After a few whiskies, getting on forum complaining or ranting while quickly typing, proper grammar at every turn goes out the window. I guess I'm just not so concerned that I need to proofread my junk forum text rants. Oh well. cOmes With . the territory I guess?

 

[AGMuisc]

@ruffrecords You may like this. I see you are in the UK. I've got the Old Smithy Tweed M3024. 100% working with some beautiful modifications and wiring re-design. Made In Kelso, Scotland 1978. When I got this thing it was pretty "ruff." Re-chiped, re-capped, relay bypass system. Sounds absolutely gorgeous with the Marinair input and output Tx. Added some transformer based inter-stage sections as well as optional patchbay taps for choice of class A summing amps. Rebuilt power supply etc.

 

[AGMuisc]

Hey Alex!

The builds I've completed definitely sound good but this forum and others make it very clear that most people are never able to get theirs running due to lack of documentation.

Yours is definitely a very different experience than most people have with their Drip builds. People find it difficult to properly build and test something if they aren't provided accurate schematics or instructions. Leveraging the schematics of a vintage unit is usually insufficient. There are a lot of differences between the circuits Drip sells and their vintage counterparts. For example, his EQ1 has a lot of differences from the original Pultec.

Your post is radically different from other posts I've seen talking about Drip. I thought it might be fun to have ChatGPT compare your post to an old email I had kicking around from Gregory. Here are the results of that comparison:



lmfao

Hey I guess if CshatGPT says it's true, then it must be! I'll get out my old grammar and punctation manuals and work hard to be a better person. Maybe Greg and I can be study buddies. Should be easy since there's a sevun-tee 5 to ate-EE percent chance Weir (Bob) the same perpetrator! Deep fake-Big Forum Conspiracy!! Balderdash!

 

[ruffrecords]

@ruffrecords You may like this. I see you are in the UK. I've got the Old Smithy Tweed M3024. 100% working with some beautiful modifications and wiring re-design. Made In Kelso, Scotland 1978. When I got this thing it was pretty "ruff." Re-chiped, re-capped, relay bypass system. Sounds absolutely gorgeous with the Marinair input and output Tx. Added some transformer based inter-stage sections as well as optional patchbay taps for choice of class A summing amps. Rebuilt power supply etc.

Cool! Much of the Tweed electronics was designed by David Rees who was also responsible for much of the early Neve designs. Great pedigree. I have always thought Tweed were very much underrated. I recently bought some genuine Tweed mic input transformers with a view to building a small number of mic pres based on their design.

Cheers

Ian

 

[AGMuisc]

Cool! Much of the Tweed electronics was designed by David Rees who was also responsible for much of the early Neve designs. Great pedigree. I have always thought Tweed were very much underrated. I recently bought some genuine Tweed mic input transformers with a view to building a small number of mic pres based on their design.

Cheers

Ian

David Rees was brilliant. I never got the opportunity to speak with him unfortunately, but I am familiar with many of his designs. About ten years ago when I got the Tweed console, I dug in and reached out to everyone I could that was close to the source as there wasn't much floating around on the web at the time about the history or technical specs. Geoff Tanner was very helpful and I did get the original schematics for the entire console build when we got it. Over the years I've gotten quite a clear picture on the lineage and timeframe, people and eventual end of the company. Just this last year I found a guy, Pete, who was with the company for a long time who started a Facebook page with some cool history. I was also lucky enough to work on the Muscle Shoals Neve 8068 a couple times, in a mix capacity, when a friend of mine had it for a while. That thing sounded unreal. Tweed was mostly broadcast level, a lot of BBC gear and whatnot, but they did make a handful of studio grade consoles that were a step up and very nice, namely the ones loaded with the Marinairs, as the 80 series were. Tweeds are A/B with Lots of LM318 and 1034b chips, which at the time were the top, and still are quite good. I know the great IC debate is an endless rabbit hole. I ended up retrofitting the console with LME49710HAs. Worked out very well. And then of course they buried the chip. Tweed is +-18v rails, for which the circuits were optimized. The build quality on the wiring and layout is very Neve inspired, well laid out and robust. The compressor limiter section I've got on the M3024 is also really cool. Unmarked opto-cells and all. You don't see many of those in existence. I couldn't find much on the T1447 input xformers and T1781 output transformers, but there are still a couple forums with a consensus on the turns ratios which seem to match the circuit designs I see. The mic pres on the Tweeds I have that are built around the T1447 are quite simple, but sound great. Only thing I can see possibly improving upon is the voltage. You could build an all discrete 24v class A pre with those xformers that would be killer, even something 36V like a Helios. If you need any info or data on the Tweed designs let me know!

 

[ruffrecords]

David Rees was brilliant. I never got the opportunity to speak with him unfortunately, but I am familiar with many of his designs.Yes, I have a lot of time for his designs. He had left Neve by the time I got there. I know he worked for Audix and Tweed but I have no idea what happened to him after that. I do know that some years later some Neve colleagues worked on the TL Audio designs but I am not sure if David was involved in that.

I dug in and reached out to everyone I could that was close to the source as there wasn't much floating around on the web at the time about the history or technical specs. Geoff Tanner was very helpful and I did get the original schematics for the entire console build when we got it. Over the years I've gotten quite a clear picture on the lineage and timeframe, people and eventual end of the company. Just this last year I found a guy, Pete, who was with the company for a long time who started a Facebook page with some cool history. I was also lucky enough to work on the Muscle Shoals Neve 8068 a couple times, in a mix capacity, when a friend of mine had it for a while. That thing sounded unreal. Tweed was mostly broadcast level, a lot of BBC gear and whatnot,

Yes, Tweed were around when commercial radio first started in the UK in the 70s (before that it the BBC and nothing else until the pirates changed everything). Tweed's simpler mechanics and the early adoption of ICs allowed them to significantly reduce costs which got them a lot of orders.

but they did make a handful of studio grade consoles that were a step up and very nice, namely the ones loaded with the Marinairs, as the 80 series were. Tweeds are A/B with Lots of LM318 and 1034b chips, which at the time were the top, and still are quite good. I know the great IC debate is an endless rabbit hole. I ended up retrofitting the console with LME49710HAs. Worked out very well. And then of course they buried the chip. Tweed is +-18v rails, for which the circuits were optimized. The build quality on the wiring and layout is very Neve inspired, well laid out and robust. The compressor limiter section I've got on the M3024 is also really cool. Unmarked opto-cells and all. You don't see many of those in existence.

The LM318 was a very fast chip for its day (50V/uS minimum). David knew all about avoiding the dominant pole at 100Hz or so that is so common in audio op amps these days and sorting out the noise with a single PNP input transistor. I am sure that accounts a lot for the sound.

I couldn't find much on the T1447 input xformers and T1781 output transformers, but there are still a couple forums with a consensus on the turns ratios which seem to match the circuit designs I see. The mic pres on the Tweeds I have that are built around the T1447 are quite simple, but sound great. Only thing I can see possibly improving upon is the voltage. You could build an all discrete 24v class A pre with those xformers that would be killer, even something 36V like a Helios. If you need any info or data on the Tweed designs let me know!

The transformers I have are Sowter 4062 types which have 10dB gain. I quite fancy using them for building a pair of C515s in a 19 inch rack enclosure.

Cheers

Ian

 

[AGMuisc]

This all tracks for sure. Indeed the slew rate of the 318 is plenty fast, even today. I kept going back and forth with several chips across the board and it was always one tradeoff for another. LME49710 is a slower rate but still plenty high. The one thing i kept going back to with the LME was its DC linearity. You couldn't remove coupling capacitors with the 318, or 5534 in those circuits because the DC was still too high coming off the back of the amp stage after the transistors. With the LME in the Tweed circuit it was Zero... or near zero, albeit you have to hand select the chips as some would still have up to a couple mV. An exercise in insanity mostly, but I found the aggregate of the noise characteristics and flexibility to work well. Ive got the Schematics for the C515s, also I think they may have been posted on Pete's Tweed FB history page.

 

[Whoops]

Was Drip ever a user on GDIY?

I remember Greg Lomayesva being a member here, around or before 2008, don't remember the nickname.
Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

In between 2008 and 2011 the quality of Drip pcb's was much higher than the other audio diy projects around. Also Drip had the best build docs, they were amazing, I remember doing an LA2A project at around 2009 and the Build docs was so good and well done that it was actually a work of Art.

I never did any Drip's project after 2010, since then a lot of things changed in the audio DIY world, it was 14 years ago, so it seems the service is not good any longer.

Thank you so much for sharing

 

[iomegaman]

I spent a lot on a Drip Redd.47 but after going thru the available documents (I downloaded them right away) the build cost came in at almost 2X Guavatones Orange 86 so I parked the project and built the Oranges, which are still my favorite preamps to this day...absolute FANTASTIC documentation and affordable and they sound great...after that I sold the Drip stuff and have avoided it ever since...I do DIY to save on projects not to make "art"...

 

[AGMuisc]

I remember Greg Lomayesva being a member here, around or before 2008, don't remember the nickname.
Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

In between 2008 and 2011 the quality of Drip pcb's was much higher than the other audio diy projects around. Also Drip had the best build docs, they were amazing, I remember doing an LA2A project at around 2009 and the Build docs was so good and well done that it was actually a work of Art.

I never did any Drip's project after 2010, since then a lot of things changed in the audio DIY world, it was 14 years ago, so it seems the service is not good any longer.

Thank you so much for sharing

Absolutely correct. My guess is that he got deep into it and it was a lot of work dealing with support and designs, questions etc, which comes along with the territory if you're gonna sell stuff. All the builds I personally have are of that era, but I noticed less of it floating around as the years went on. So, not surprised to hear stories of different experiences.

 

[ruffrecords]

Absolutely correct. My guess is that he got deep into it and it was a lot of work dealing with support and designs, questions etc, which comes along with the territory if you're gonna sell stuff. All the builds I personally have are of that era, but I noticed less of it floating around as the years went on. So, not surprised to hear stories of different experiences.

Which would be fine but for the fact he still seems to be actively selling PCBs: https://www.dripelectronics.com/shop-online

Cheers

Ian