Where do people go for speaker projects?

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ccaudle

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Mar 18, 2010
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There don't seem to be many speaker projects on GDIY. The forums at Madisound are gone now, so where do people go to discuss speaker ideas or get recommendations for drivers? DIYAudio? Some other speaker focused forum?
I have a speaker project idea I would like to work on this summer, but a quick scan of Madisound is all it takes for me to know there are way too many drivers available for me to just start going over datasheets without some starting guidance from some people who have been building recently.
 
Diyaudio seems to have a lot of info. I also started looking for projects this year.

There are some excellent stickied threads with lists of projects, advice, common questions answered etc.

Bear in mind I'm a beginner with speaker building so I'm not able to judge the quality of the info as well as someone more experienced
 
I would like to believe I'm not the only one here that builds speakers. I got tired of all the superstition and audiophoolery at diyaudio, the atmosphere is so much better here at groupdiy.
You could post your idea and some of us might be able to help?

Cheers, V
 
....
I have a speaker project idea I would like to work on this summer.....

Two magazines Klang+Ton and Hobby HiFi are still published in Europe (Germany), where you can find a lot of interesting projects, information and analysis of speaker drivers. (Note: These magazines are in German and are not free.)

https://klangundton-magazin.de/http://www.hobby-hifi.de/
Speaker kits and parts:

https://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/journal_klang_und_ton.htm
P.S. I think you should have asked this question in the Drawing Board, you would probably get more suggestions, and there are certainly more members here who know quite a bit about speakers.
 
I don't know about making small hifi speakers but in the live sound reinforcement community there was a well know (large) subwoofer project designed by industry icon Tom Danley, who now has a speaker company. lab subwoofer forum

JR

PS; Back in the 70s I rolled my own 16 driver version of the Bose 901...
 
You could post your idea and some of us might be able to help?

OK, might get kind of wordy, but you asked for it.

I have wanted for quite a while to experiment with wide dispersion speakers, i.e. that have wide dispersion across all frequency bands. I have a set of dipole speakers that take a kind of opposite, or maybe complementary approach in that they limit the power response of the lower mid and lower frequency bands by having a figure-8 response to make the low frequency energy transmitted into the room similar to the high frequency, which naturally narrows because of cone driver behavior.
The problem with dipole radiators is that they need space behind them, so that limits the placement options considerably. I would like something more like half-hemisphere dispersion so I can put them up against the walls in locations I don't have as much room available.

Over 20 years ago Manny LaCarrubba at The Plant recording studio in Sausalito was working on the side with Dave Moulton on wide dispersion speaker designs, and made a custom monitoring system that got used at The Plant. Mix Magazine did a cover article on the idea, but I can't seem to find a picture from that article. The follow-up article is online:
Mix article on wide dispersion control room design
A little more searching found that The Plant is still open, or maybe open again, and they still have a picture of the control room with those monitors:
"The Garden" studio at The Plant

That acoustic reflector design was eventually licensed by Bang & Olufsen and used in several of their Beolab series. This is one that is still using that design for the tweeter at least (not sure about the midrange, I can't tell from the pictures):
B&O Beolab 20 speakers
Older Beolab 5 speakers with both a tweeter and mid-range reflector shown:
B&O Beolab 5 at BeoCentral
B&O Beolab 5 at BeoWorld

This article has a little about the history of the design (the bottom of page 5 has a picture of the proto version of what became The Plant monitor system):
about Sausalito Audio Works

The design was covered by a couple of (expired) US patents, 6435301:
Acoustic Lens patent 6068080 at Google
acoustic lens patent 6435301 at Google

The "about Sausalito Audio Works" document shows what looks like some really labor intensive way of making the reflector out of clay, but these days it should be possible to print one (or a few) out of plastic.

So far so good, I just need to spend some time figuring out how to make that in CAD, then print up some test pieces.
Because of the way the energy gets redistributed, and the way that most drivers are designed to be flat vs. frequency even as the dispersion narrows with increasing frequency, you end up needing to EQ the driver to have an increase in output vs. frequency so that you get a flat power response.

I think that means that the on-axis response flatness isn't as important as it might otherwise be, but you need low distortion and high power handling capability so that as you boost the high frequencies the distortion doesn't become noticeable, and the driver doesn't have thermal problems.
Also if going with a 2-way design need the ability to cross over at a pretty low frequency so the tweeter takes over before the mid-woofer response starts narrowing too much. With a 3-way design that is less of an issue because you can just make a bigger reflector for the mid-range, like those monitors at The Plant or the Beolab 5.

A quick trip to the Madisound web page gives me 184 tweeter choices to choose from. Considerably fewer midrange if I want to go with a 3-way design instead of 2-way, so sorting through midrange choices might be tolerable, but I don't know where to even start picking out tweeters.

Someone mentioned Parts Express, so a quick check there shows 163 tweeter choices. There is probably some overlap with Madisound, but even accounting for that I have well over 200 choices to evaluate. Where to even start?

How does one even get started on a DIY speaker design if you first have to wade through 200 tweeters and 100 mid-woofers to pick out parts?
 
You are joining what could almost be called a movement in loudspeaker technology. A good many knowledgeable gentlemen have conducted research into and built speakers with various directivity enhancement contraptions (waveguides, horns, lenses, you name it).
This guy took part in the development of the Beolab speakers. There are quite a few interesting articles at B&O Tech

Going with a two-way, I'd suggest one of the larger domes, either Monacor DT300 or Audax 34-something. Or get a pair of the venerable Seas H087 off fleabay.
That way, you can take the cross-point down to where the beaming from the bass-driver isn't terrible. You may need to remove the magnetic oil from the DT300, and replace the felt pad under the dome with a bit of wool in the channel to the rear chamber to get the last bits of LF out of it.
Both the Audax and the DT300 are quite efficient, so should help keep dist low. Both sound far better than their moderate pricepoint suggests.

I suspect a two-way with a lens on the tweeter and a "regular" bass driver will have a somewhat lumpy off-axis response due to the different driver setups. And right in the sensitive mid-range..

Going three-way should make your life easier as regards directivity, you'll have a dedicated bass driver to swamp the room with some nice basstones, plus a 6dB roomgain if placed against the wall and above the mixer. Then you can focus on getting your mids and highs to align. Maybe use a bass-reflex so you can tune the port with wool.
Here, I'd again settle for a high-efficiency driver with a reasonably flat response, like the dual-magnet Vifa/Peerless DX25, IIRC.
Maybe a ring-radiator would be good for this project; they go very high and have good dispersion, though I haven't really built anything with one of those.

Don't spend a ton of money on exotic drivers. No need for audiphoolery until you've cut your teeth on some waveguides.

Madisound displays SPL curves for a lot of their drivers (I didn't look at all of them;-) which is very handy. Avoid drivers with huge hills and valleys, and maybe avoid the ones with short "horns" in the faceplate. No need to add further complications when you're experimenting with deflectors/horns/waveguides...

From personal experience experimenting with waveguides, it's finicky business. I'd often get improved dispersion and lower distortion but "strange" spikes and resonances on the SPL readings. It's great fun when it works though.

Maybe some of the calculations here can help you along:
Practical DIY Waveguides - Part 2
Finite element analysis in practical waveguide construction

A measuring tape and a wave-length calculator/table is very helpful for tracking down resonances.

I also own a pair of dipoles, the Quad ESL57. They have terrible dispersion. (but they're really very good in the chair inside the sweet spot). They come out every now and then, just for fun.

Have fun, regards,
Viggo
 
Thanks for that link to the FEA paper. Slowly making my way through it. Looks like good stuff, although a lot of it will just be interesting background information, I won't be doing my own FEA simulations for now. SAW did all the hard work 20 years ago coming up with the reflector design, I just have to decide how to implement it with currently available parts.
 
Don't have much to contribute at this point but i'm following with interest. I've built a pair of near field 2 way with Eton drivers (ER4/woofer) that are pretty good but i'm already thinking of improving that set up . I was looking at the Monacor DT300 with waveguide and a couple of Seas /radiator set up.
 

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