Who is "Dana Kirkegaard"?

[PRR]

We have a problematic small recital hall.

Glenn White advised some changes, which we eventually did.

As a follow-up, our Dean is bringing-in "Dana Kirkegaard from Kirkegaard Acoustic Design".

Kirkegaard Associates is a very high-profile acoustics consulting firm.

But different company name. They don't employ anybody named Dana.

And Google isn't finding much info on "Dana Kirkegaard" or "Kirkegaard Acoustic Design".

Does anybody know or know-of Dana?

Just curious. If Dana has spent an hour reading-up Architectural Acoustics he's 59 minutes ahead of most anybody here.

Our real problem is: the room can't possibly do well all the concerts we do. Raising the roof would help, but not cure, and is impractical. So what we need is some guy to prescribe a few more/less dead cats, then point out the obvious: don't do big brass in small rooms etc.

 

[JohnRoberts]

http://www.kirkegaard.com/people.htm#

Perhaps R. Lawrence Kirkegaard, FASA, Hon. AIA

try Kirkegaard Associates.

JR

 

[PRR]

> Perhaps R. Lawrence Kirkegaard

Unlikely.

That man is a semi-god. Too high an honor for our small hall.

We could/would not afford him.

I have the impression he doesn't do sitework any more; he has high-profile and mid-profile grunts like Ed and Joe and several others to do that. (It's a real powerhouse office.)

I can't get "Dana" out of "R. Lawrence".

Sure, could be son or grandson, left the family business to strike out in solo work. Or could be some other Kirkegaard entirely, though the acoustics community is small and that seems an unlikely coincidence.

It is possible our staff screwed-up the dudes's name, OR the company, but IMHO unlikely to get both wrong yet plausibly correct.

Which is why I'm asking the gentlefolks here if they ever heard of Dana. This isn't an acoustics forum, but enough studio-ops here to have a chance of knowing everybody in the room acoustics racket.

 

[pucho812]

The acoustics of the chapel were studied by the renowned acoustician Dana Kirkegaard of Downer’s Grove, IL.

found that in an artical.

Found this in the phone book. I wonder if it is the same guy?

Kirkegaard Dana (630) 515-0335 4927 Wallbank Ave, Downers Grove, IL 60515 Map
Kirkegaard Dana (630) 271-0096 4927 Wallbank Ave, Downers Grove, IL 60515

I keep getting his name and articals that mention him as doing acoustic design work mostly with schools and churches.... :? Still looking

Found this in an artical on pomona college. Pomona college is out here in pomona california a burb of los angeles.

Contacts:
William Peterson, Harry S. and Madge Rice Thatcher Professor Of Music, College Organist and Chair of the Pomona College Department of Music, (909) 607-7870.

Organ builder: C.B. Fisk, Inc., Gloucester Mass., (978) 283-1909

Acoustical consultant: Dana Kirkegaard, Kirkegaard Acoustics, Downers Grove, IL, (630) 271-0095

Architect: Brooks Cavin III, Claremont Environmental Design Group, (909) 625-3916

Cynthia Peters, Pomona College Public Affairs Office, (909) 621-8515

and here is the artical. Might give the man a call.

http://www.pomona.edu/events/news/NewsItems200203/021703organ.shtml

 

[NewYorkDave]

[quote author="PRR"]
Just curious. If Dana has spent an hour reading-up Architectural Acoustics he's 59 minutes ahead of most anybody here. [/quote]

Our real problem is: the room can't possibly do well all the concerts we do. Raising the roof would help, but not cure, and is impractical. So what we need is some guy to prescribe a few more/less dead cats, then point out the obvious: don't do big brass in small rooms etc.

First rule of working technical support in an institutional environment: outsiders automatically have more credibility with management than you do. All he needs to do is look at the hall, tell them the same things you've been saying for years and he'll be hailed as a genius :wink:

 

[Svart]

First rule of working technical support in an institutional environment: outsiders automatically have more credibility with management than you do. All he needs to do is look at the hall, tell them the same things you've been saying for years and he'll be hailed as a genius Wink

NYD, for putting this into words you should be sainted.

I've been there, we've all been there yet it seems we never get away from this.

Even as a ex-manager of an electronics department for 3 years, I found the higher bosses ALWAYS running out to hire so-called "contractors" who seldom did quality work and seldom did more than the same as the staff engineers would do on even the worst day of the year but upper management always sided with the contractors whenever blame was to be placed for their inadequacy..

BUT there are a few real GEMS amongst the contractors that I've worked with and have had the pleasure of at least knowing a few here on the forum and around though I have not worked with them.

 

[PRR]

> doing acoustic design work mostly with schools and churches....

Yeah, found some of those. And the address is 22 miles west of THE Kirkegaard's office. So it does smell like family. And that's a good family to be with.

> Might give the man a call.

Uh, no way. That would be Going Outside Channels.

He'll be here Friday. I just wanted to have a clue who he was before meeting him.

If I'm allowed to meet him. I wasn't invited; word went out to Faculty, not mere staff.

And I'll keep a low profile. At most, "translating" between musician's vague comments with help of my experience in the room. Experience, not my opinions what's-wrong or what-to-do.

> putting this into words you should be sainted.

Just for working where he does, he's got lots of sainthood points. Details are different where I work, but institutions are the same animals everywhere....

> outsiders automatically have more credibility with management than you do.

Absolutely understood.

FWIW, before we had funding I tried to suggest improvements, and fought the last "improvement" (nylon carpet with no pad). My ideas were 1/100th the cost of White's plan but within my limited ambition, very similar. The semicircular stage shell was stupid in 1930 and can be proven with modern modeling. I sketched bent plywood panels to break up the focus; White suggested a complete rip-out which I agree with but could never hope to get funded. White removed ALL the "acoustic treatment" which had been tacked on over the decades.... echoing my thought that the ceiling was all the absorption needed, the walls were the worst place for sound-sucking (I proposed plastering the acoustic tile near ear level with joint compound).

The change from dead-midrange to "live" makes some people happier and some people outraged. I'm sure White figured: we can't know or measure the absorption of 75 year old CelloTex with decent accuracy, but it's a ballpark and also a Given (it IS the ceiling and the structure would not support any normal ceiling). So rip all the crap out, let people be shocked, then come back and listen. Maybe add-back a few dead cats, though not spread thin like carpet (notches the 1KC-4KC band and is "hard" everywhere else).

Instead of Glenn we get this Dana; he's gotta be competent enough for this unwinnable job. The room is long and low (4.4:1 aspect ratio) and is never going to be a big round shiny/mellow acoustic space. The only original flaws were the semicircular stage shell and the fact they didn't have money for a higher building; all else is decades of misguided "improvements".

The real trick is Spoiling The Users' Unrealizable Expectations. Which could be why White declined to return. Been there, done that, got the bruises.... let the young guy face the mob. I'm sure Dana will take home more for an hour on site than I get in 2 weeks. And I don't begrudge that in the least.

 

[bcarso]

I have been working a bit recently with an acoustical guy, Anthony Grimani, who specializes in making home theater rooms sound good through a combination of EQ and room treatment. He is pretty decent, and supplements his hourly rates by selling various contrivances, usually big sandwich affairs that look like hanging art.

The live versus dead room/hall issues are tough, particularly if you are trying to please the performers as well as the listeners and recordists.

 

[amorris]

Kirkegaard Dana (630) 515-0335 4927 Wallbank Ave, Downers Grove, IL 60515 Map

damn, how scary is that? Google someone in 5 minutes and have a map to there house!

 

[PRR]

I met Dana today. If you have a chance to work with him, be glad. He's enthusiastic, musical, and sharp-eared.

> All he needs to do is look at the hall, tell them the same things you've been saying for years and he'll be hailed as a genius

No. He heard things I hadn't noticed; OTOH some of the faculty got in his face. In a good way: they want a workable room, we've all danced with "acousticians" and been left wanting. Judy frankly asked for assurance that this time would be different, and of course there's no answer for that. Dana might talk good and do bad. More likely, he'll have several good ideas which get scrambled in the bureaucratic mud and come out all wrong.(*)

It's a really ugly job, consulting acoustician. Most of your clients know less than they think they do. A fair number are jerks. On new construction, there is an Architect who may be good or bad, but in any case IS GOD and not subject to acoustic thinking (I knew one who defied gravity). Some clients actually do want good sound.... but don't have money.

> doing acoustic design work mostly with schools and churches....

For every major city project, there are 100 towns with 4 schools and 10 churches. Half of them never call an acoustician; still the school/church work is the daily bread of the average acoustician.

And in particular: Dana is a fan of good pipe organs, knows the work of every builder and how they deal with the room the organ goes into, and sometimes gets hired-in.

Some acousticians prefer to come in when the room is blank paper. Of course in the struggle between dramatic visuals and budget pressure, acoustics never wins. Dana really seems to enjoy pragmatic work in existing rooms that miss excellence.

(*) Good one: the other concert hall was supposed to have rough-hewn stone walls for reverb and small-scale diffusion, with lush drapes to give a smaller sound when desired. The architect and builder found out how much rough stone would cost, and found a cinderblock with a very good "rough stone look". From a distance, you are almost fooled. Up close, a sharp ear will note that it sucks sound. And there's a LOT of it. We never got the big reverb; in fact the room RT60 is slightly longer in some bands with the curtains closed. The raw cinderblock is more absorptive than velour curtains. The acoustician on that one knew nothing until long after the project was done, was surprised but hardly shocked. Just as well that fashion had meanwhile changed away from plotting RT60 curves and assuming they tell you something.

 

[bcarso]

I am so happy that he turned out to be a good guy. I wish him luck.