radardoug
Well-known member
How can you say the sound was horrendous, if that was the case Yamaha would not have sold the bucket loads of them that they did.
Yamaha 01V96
- Thread starter Specsto
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
Having sold many units 20 years ago when there was not a lot of options for small digital mixers has no correlation whatsoever with how ancient digital technology sounds 20 years later in 2023.
I can say it sounds horrendous because I know the unit very well as I know very well also all the other mixers from all the brands that came out since.
Technology improved a lot, and in 2023 Digital Audio sounds tremendously good, that was not the case in 1998. There's much better things nowadays than the 01V96, and if one breaks today maybe it's time to move to something better, which is pretty easy.
I could say many more things on this subject, but will leave it here, because I don't want to hi jack this thread.
radardoug
Well-known member
When you say horrendous, that is a very severe criticism. It implies the mixers were unusable. That is not what the market thought. Many great things would have been mixed on those units. And of course I presume you have no actual quality measurements taken from those mixers.
Regarding horrendous vs useable, I remember when James Taylor’s Hourglass album came out (1997) and Frank Filipetti won the Best Engineered Grammy for it. It was mostly recorded on a Yamaha O2r to DA-88s or ADATs. I believe it was mixed on a Neve Capricorn, so the album was ostensibly digitally recorded and mixed. My first impression, being very familiar with the sound of the O2r preamp, was “wow, every tom fill is overloading those crappy preamps and the distortion is so obvious.” It was the analog side of the console that really sucked for something at that price-point. However, the record was musically excellent and critically well received. YMMV
As an aside, a room I worked at was often tuned by George Augsperger himself and he used “Line ‘Em Up” from that album as a critical listening reference. I asked him about the preamp distortion and he said it became one of the signs of proper monitor reproduction, but that he was mainly listening for overall balance and panning. Plus, he liked James Taylor and since the album had won an engineering Grammy, people assumed it was a great sonic reference.
Many, many “bad sounding” devices have been used to make great albums, but that shows that meaning and emotion triumphsover sonics most of the time.
Just look at Willie Nelson’s guitar- ha!
As an aside, a room I worked at was often tuned by George Augsperger himself and he used “Line ‘Em Up” from that album as a critical listening reference. I asked him about the preamp distortion and he said it became one of the signs of proper monitor reproduction, but that he was mainly listening for overall balance and panning. Plus, he liked James Taylor and since the album had won an engineering Grammy, people assumed it was a great sonic reference.
Many, many “bad sounding” devices have been used to make great albums, but that shows that meaning and emotion triumphsover sonics most of the time.
Just look at Willie Nelson’s guitar- ha!
radardoug
Well-known member
Heres a track recorded and mixed on an 02R. Now you tell me if it sounds crappy!
Gee, fellers, I sorta, kinda think you are not picking up what Mr. Whoops is putting down. (NOT that he needs MY help to make his point! ...)
He did not say the old mixer sounded bad or made bad recordings IN ITS TIME. He merely says it has been vastly superseded by newer models, and it may be more cost effective to buy a current model than refurbish the old one. The old model may have been state of the art THEN, but it sounds horrendous compared with current models. Should the bloke refurbish it, or replace it with a newer, better model?
Consider a parallel situation: In the 1970s I enjoyed a set of KOSS PRO 4/AA headphones which, AT THAT TIME, was considered pretty good. Yielding to a surge of nostalgia, last year I purchased a second pair, and they sounded horrendous compared to ALL other headphones I have owned since owning my first set of PRO 4/AA headphones. I quickly sold them to a ham radio operator who wanted their 15 dB passive noise reduction and weak bass response, making them better suited to communications grade audio than Hi-Fi music.
While both devices sounded good in their day, they are really lousy by today's standards. At least that is MY take on his comment.
[Parenthetically, I enjoyed @radardog's guitar piece. ] James/K8JHR
Specsto
Member
Thank you for your reply. I’m going to try and service it anyway.
Specsto
Member
Thanks again, no need to discuss if there are better options. My intention is to try to keep it as long as I can. He did say “in his opinion.” I understand time and technology advancements. I will enjoy the process of trying to repair it and it will be more satisfying to me when using it after that fact. Again I thank you all for your help and responses.Gee, fellers, I sorta, kinda think you are not picking up what Mr. Whoops is putting down. (NOT that he needs MY help to make his point! ...)
He did not say the old mixer sounded bad or made bad recordings IN ITS TIME. He merely says it has been vastly superseded by newer models, and it may be more cost effective to buy a current model than refurbish the old one. The old model may have been state of the art THEN, but it sounds horrendous compared with current models. Should the bloke refurbish it, or replace it with a newer, better model?
Consider a parallel situation: In the 1970s I enjoyed a set of KOSS PRO 4/AA headphones which, AT THAT TIME, was considered pretty good. Yielding to a surge of nostalgia, last year I purchased a second pair, and they sounded horrendous compared to ALL other headphones I have owned since owning my first set of PRO 4/AA headphones. I quickly sold them to a ham radio operator who wanted their 15 dB passive noise reduction and weak bass response, making them better suited to communications grade audio than Hi-Fi music.
While both devices sounded good in their day, they are really lousy by today's standards. At least that is MY take on his comment.
[Parenthetically, I enjoyed @radardog's guitar piece. ] James/K8JHR
I have no doubts the 02R is more than capable of doing Elevator Music,
and that proves that for sure.
Although I'm not really into that scene, I guess for someone to know how good or how crappy a mix sounds had to go and check the mix inside an elevator.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Elevator music (also known as Muzak, piped music, or lift music) is a type of background music played in elevators, in rooms where many people come together for reasons other than listening to music, and during telephone calls when placed on hold. There is no specific sound associated with elevator music, but it usually involves simple instrumental themes from "soft" popular music, or "light" classical music being performed by slow strings.
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radardoug
Well-known member
Thanks for the critique! Perhaps put up an example of your music so I can return the favour.
By the way, that album went to no 1 in New Zealand and sold 100,000 copies.
By the way, that album went to no 1 in New Zealand and sold 100,000 copies.
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I've never really liked the Yamaha sound, but to call it "horrendous" seems a bit over the top, to put it mildly. Even the lowly little Stagepas I use on occasion sounds OK.
Besides, I run a shelter for last century's early digital gear. Some items were acquired because the internet told me they were "horrendous" sounding. None of them sounds really bad. Not even the Korg RC168 fi that was a commercial failure, is an ergonomic failure and, admittedly, the analog part isn't too great sounding. I only use the digital part anyway. And the few that came in sounding really "horrendous" either needed repair, or there was a way to screw up the sound by not reading the bloody manual.
Besides, I run a shelter for last century's early digital gear. Some items were acquired because the internet told me they were "horrendous" sounding. None of them sounds really bad. Not even the Korg RC168 fi that was a commercial failure, is an ergonomic failure and, admittedly, the analog part isn't too great sounding. I only use the digital part anyway. And the few that came in sounding really "horrendous" either needed repair, or there was a way to screw up the sound by not reading the bloody manual.
I gave no critique whatsoever, it falls in the category of elevator music, it fits all the criteria, it is what it is. I live in a small building so I don't have an elevator to be able to listen to it and give a critique, and as I said I'm not into that scene.
Some of my work as been shared countless of times in this forum, easy to find. It's also published everywhere online, youtube and streaming services. My name is also easy to find, so whoever wants to check it is free to do so. I have no intentions of posting anything here, because it's not relevant to this thread, but above all because I have nothing to prove to you and I couldn't care less about your opinion, on the contrary you seem to care a lot about my opinions
Yes mate, I take sound seriously, so that's my opinion.
You don't need to agree it's fine. I respect if you don't agree
Anyone is free to use whatever they want and that serves their needs.
For me personally the only place for a 01V in 2023 is in a dumpster, but for other people it might be they're preferred toy, it's fine.
Member Specsto already said he wants to service the unit and keep it running as long as he can,
so it's a valuable tool for him personally, let's focus on that.
I already gave my advice that I think a complete ReCap job should be a good idea
scott2000
Well-known member
Of course your entitled to your opinion Whoops ,
but it comes across in a viciously abrasive and unfriendly manner ,
RadarDoug does not deserve this.
How many Eurovision entries did you do Whoops ?
Or maybe your a far more serious producer than that ,
I dont know , I havent heard your stuff ,
What I would say is this ,
if you feel your sound is superiour to all else ,
lets have a show of cards and you can post your most proud musical moments for us all to dissect under the microscope .
Like all sound equipment its only ever going to sound as good as it can if the right pair of hands and ears are behind the desk .
I took in a benefit gig the other night in support of a local good cause , great band ,all in their late 40's 50's , great energy , good PA system , A&H QU24 , Martin Audio DSP tops and bins ,
What let them down was trying to do the sound from the stage , sounded ok earlier on in the night , then as they built things up with extra vocal harmonies it started to get gritty and intermodulated on the peaks , All the boys were too busy cranking it out to be able to fix the issue . Sadly this is often the way nowadays with jobbing cabaret bands .
For all the plus points of the modern digital , I still dont like any of it much and a halfway decent analog board for me is always preferable .
Get down off your high horse now Whoopsy boy ,
and put your money where your mouthpiece is
but it comes across in a viciously abrasive and unfriendly manner ,
RadarDoug does not deserve this.
How many Eurovision entries did you do Whoops ?
Or maybe your a far more serious producer than that ,
I dont know , I havent heard your stuff ,
What I would say is this ,
if you feel your sound is superiour to all else ,
lets have a show of cards and you can post your most proud musical moments for us all to dissect under the microscope .
Like all sound equipment its only ever going to sound as good as it can if the right pair of hands and ears are behind the desk .
I took in a benefit gig the other night in support of a local good cause , great band ,all in their late 40's 50's , great energy , good PA system , A&H QU24 , Martin Audio DSP tops and bins ,
What let them down was trying to do the sound from the stage , sounded ok earlier on in the night , then as they built things up with extra vocal harmonies it started to get gritty and intermodulated on the peaks , All the boys were too busy cranking it out to be able to fix the issue . Sadly this is often the way nowadays with jobbing cabaret bands .
For all the plus points of the modern digital , I still dont like any of it much and a halfway decent analog board for me is always preferable .
Get down off your high horse now Whoopsy boy ,
and put your money where your mouthpiece is
Just for skits n giggles ,
I never knew about Portuguese music before ,
I like those orchestral arrangements very much and the female singing style is easy on the ear .
Like pop music everywhere else things turned a bit turgid in the 80's and never really came back , still no offence intended to anyone who was there in the thick of it at the time .
Now we just have to figure out which songs are Whoops's productions and we can all have a mighty laugh
I never knew about Portuguese music before ,
I like those orchestral arrangements very much and the female singing style is easy on the ear .
Like pop music everywhere else things turned a bit turgid in the 80's and never really came back , still no offence intended to anyone who was there in the thick of it at the time .
Now we just have to figure out which songs are Whoops's productions and we can all have a mighty laugh
NoisyIndividual
Well-known member
I know of a Presonus going cheap ....
It seems like you have two problems. The first you mention is transformer hum not in the audio, so I’m assuming you mean the mechanical noise - it can come from the laminations in the transformer not binding together any more if the varnish has aged and allowed tiny spaces between the soft iron laminations - the answer to that is a: if it has binding bolts to tighten them, or b: if not then a new transformer is in order if you can source one. It may also be its mounts to the chassis. I have quietened down noisy humming transformers in synths and FX gear by isolating the mounts using rubber grommets, this helps isolate from the chassis so it is not a sounding board - I recently did this on an Eventide H3000 including damping rubber sheeting on the inside top case as the unit was too noisy in the studio that owns it.
The second thing is your random noise issue - it could be a clocking issue - check the clock source:
https://faq.yamaha.com/usa/s/article/U0001613
It could also be failing solder joints on any of the board areas associated with the DSP, clock or CPU, ADCs or DACs that come good once a bit of current has flowed and heat has expanded the joints into making contact - you mention that it comes good after a while but the noise can randomly come and go.
I would suggest you run the tests associated with those areas. Page 60 onwards of the service manual will give you all the info. Test 2 DSP and DRAM, test 8 DIO, test 9 WordClock would be the first I’d do. The test should be done when you can reliably have the machine in a fault state and then done again when it has stabilised. This way you can roughly isolate the area you need to reflow the solder.
Edit: the above page number reference is for 01V and not 01V96, it should read page 90 - see my post 43.
Freezer spray is another way of isolating problems in conjunction with a heat gun with a fine focus. This helps you to narrow faults down to a single area/chip/component on a PCB that has intermittent issues.
The second thing is your random noise issue - it could be a clocking issue - check the clock source:
https://faq.yamaha.com/usa/s/article/U0001613
It could also be failing solder joints on any of the board areas associated with the DSP, clock or CPU, ADCs or DACs that come good once a bit of current has flowed and heat has expanded the joints into making contact - you mention that it comes good after a while but the noise can randomly come and go.
I would suggest you run the tests associated with those areas. Page 60 onwards of the service manual will give you all the info. Test 2 DSP and DRAM, test 8 DIO, test 9 WordClock would be the first I’d do. The test should be done when you can reliably have the machine in a fault state and then done again when it has stabilised. This way you can roughly isolate the area you need to reflow the solder.
Edit: the above page number reference is for 01V and not 01V96, it should read page 90 - see my post 43.
Freezer spray is another way of isolating problems in conjunction with a heat gun with a fine focus. This helps you to narrow faults down to a single area/chip/component on a PCB that has intermittent issues.
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