Your test method was wrong….

[JohnRoberts]

If you can't hear the difference in a blind test,

with statistical significance

you aren't hearing a difference. You are thinking you are hearing a difference. The mind is highly susceptible to influence and eager to think it sees differences or patterns where they may not exist. I agree everything we perceive can be measured, but we don't always know how to measure what is important. The senses are in fact extremely powerful measurement devices. I do not think humans have technology that can match the ear, eye, or nose in many ways (nose of a dog for instance)

not as cheaply as training a dog. Dogs can be trained to smell covid, but I expect scientists have been trying to accomplish that with instrumentation for decades.

Please be more respectful of otters, haha

I make a point of not arguing with people about what they say that they hear. It can't be proved without active participation and time investment from all involved. Life is too short for that.
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For today's TMI... Back last century when Peavey introduced their patented tube guitar amp mimic (transtube) at a winter NAMM show. They used a single blind listening trial, set up in a booth sound room doing a simple A/B test between a new Transtube amp being introduced at that show and a vacuum tube amp (Classic 50). The vast majority of A/B test participants could not tell them apart. FWIW that Transtube was designed to sound like that model tube amp.

Human audition involves significant post processing by our meat computer. The design engineer who spent several months tweaking the transtube technology on his bench learned the audible tells to listen for and could easily tell them apart. Another trial participant (a fairly well known bass player) could also discern the real amp better than chance.

I doubt I could tell them apart, and I didn't try. Over the decades of tweaking circuits on the bench I have trained my ears to hear some specific sound flaws that most others likely don't recognize. I recall trying to retune FM radios better on station when I heard the early vocal exciters distorting the signal. From years of working with pitch compression/expansionI can recognize subtle artifacts related to splicing stretched or squeezed sound samples back together. Just this week I heard artifacts in a movie soundtrack on TV that was time modified.

I don't have golden ears, I just learned to hear a few specialized distortions that I focussed on over the decades. I advocate for null testing and it can be a useful tool to identify what the difference is. If we amplify the null residual, we can learn what to listen for. Of course for general listening ignorance is bliss. Sadly when I hear flaws in a movie sound track on TV I am not listening for them.

JR

 

[pucho812]

I trust both, they're both good and complement eachother.
I like to listen first (ears/Brain) and measure after

I normally measure what I Ear

my ears have been abused for decades with loud rock and roll playing drums and starting off as early as school where i was in marching band with no ear plugs. What we didn't know back then. Add to that years of studio work as a tracking engineer. At anyway rate my ears are pretty good these days and I do take care of them wearing earplugs often. I do not monitor loud and I get results that people like. That said, I still trust my test gear over my ears. Yes I use my ears to find things, but the AP confirms it all. The sad part is when you are in a room and you hear something the other engineer ignores like a buzz. One of the guys I work with now, his excuse for everything is "they do that." it's infuriating. I don't know if he hears it or if he just ignores it. The same guy tells me there is a drastic difference between a specific jbl part number of tweeter that was first made in the U.S.A. and then manufacturing was moved to Mexico. I don't hear the difference in parts but yet he swears you do. I often think he hears it with his eyes vs with his ears.

 

[cyrano]

It is well known that there is a gene that allows some people to taste things others cannot. This explains why brussel sprouts taste very bitter to some folk and rather nice to ordinary folk like me. I am convinced their is a golden ear gene that allows certain unfortunate individuals to hear things us regular mortals cannot. If you are cursed with this gene then you may well be able to hear the tiniest of differences but the vast majority will not.

It has nothing to do with naysayers. Just because you can hear something does not mean everyone else can.

Cheers

Ian

There's not just one gene...

A lot of food taste stuff is different. Asians get more nutritional value from rice than Europeans. Otoh, they have a harder time digesting alcohol or chocolate. Same gene.

There's even a gene that makes you naive. I just wonder what gets better if you have this gene, cause for every minus there's a plus.

I don't know about hearing tho. My hearing isn't that good, with age and tinnitus. But when we go into the woods, I usually hear wildlife before others do. I don't think it's sensitivity. It's just I know better what to listen for. That's brain function, not ear function. Is that genetically driven?

 

[JohnRoberts]

There's not just one gene...

not just genes but gene expression that is affected by environment and more.

A lot of food taste stuff is different. Asians get more nutritional value from rice than Europeans. Otoh, they have a harder time digesting alcohol or chocolate. Same gene.

besides genes, gut biotics are involved in digestion. We have a bazillion fellow travelers in our gut.

There's even a gene that makes you naive. I just wonder what gets better if you have this gene, cause for every minus there's a plus.

not sure nature is a zero sum game proper question might be wondering what is different, perhaps not better.

I don't know about hearing tho. My hearing isn't that good, with age and tinnitus. But when we go into the woods, I usually hear wildlife before others do. I don't think it's sensitivity. It's just I know better what to listen for. That's brain function, not ear function. Is that genetically driven?

Evolution rewards awareness of hazards... many of our pre-wired auditory algorithms are to locate and identify hazards.

JR

 

[cyrano]

Evolution rewards awareness of hazards... many of our pre-wired auditory algorithms are to locate and identify hazards.

Does it?

Tardigrades are very old, as a species. They're also near-indestructible and have NO flight reflex. I'd say they're not very aware of hazards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade
Evolution walks most paths. Some are just more successful. Why are there no three- or five-legged creatures around?

It's none, one, two, four, many. Oddly enough, that's also how well birds (and a lot of other animals) can count.

In the end, it's all just math. In just a few cases, we have discovered the math behind it. Tree leaves, for instance.