AKG Perception P220 to Neumann u87 5 min mod ( p200, p100, p400, p420? )

[micolas]

So in terms of the issue of sensitivity/pickup of mouth noises or those slightest nuances of movement - with mic placement of say..overhead, 8-12"

Technically, a microphone distance of more than 6" is recommended, but the artistic element comes into the equation.
The vocal artist must have a good command of the microphone technique. Depending on the nature of the song, it uses the proximity effect for a more intimate sound, or moves away or/and changes the angles of incidence relative to the microphone during stronger passages, can acoustically modify the equalization, sibilance, etc.
A good example of good mic mastery is @Wordsushi who often gets close to 2..3 inches and doesn't use a pop-filter for plosives.
A good vocal soloist needs less dynamic processing than an amateur.
It is good to pay a lot of attention to the positioning of the microphone in each particular case, in post-processing some problems cannot be satisfactorily fixed.

 

[Kelvin Zero]

Confusing. Some websites say sound falls off the square of the distance, others say 6dB at double the distance - they seem contradictory.

Well, my spl meter agrees with -6db at distance doubling. This is what i've been using for measuring extremely high SPL, and checks out every time. Has to be a glitch with interpretation of the theory.

could the confusion be over dB SPL and dB SIL?
Is it correct that 6dB is double the voltage but 4 times the power?

https://sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm

 

[kingkorg]

could the confusion be over dB SPL and dB SIL?
Is it correct that 6dB is double the voltage but 4 times the power?

https://sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm

In the end it doesn't really matter when it comes to the context in which i've mentioned it. The further from the source, the less the movement of the source matters.

I personally have no doubts regarding doubling of voltage vs power. All well established, and easily measurable scientific facts.

When it comes to anything containing "psycho" like in psychoacoustic, i got that covered by my daily line of work dealing with people with distorded or altered state of mind. The science has not gotten so far to explain most of these effects empirically.

 

[Papa Tango Charly]

In the end it doesn't really matter when it comes to the context in which i've mentioned it. The further from the source, the less the movement of the source matters.

I personally have no doubts regarding doubling of voltage vs power. All well established, and easily measurable scientific facts.

When it comes to anything containing "psycho" like in psychoacoustic, i got that covered by my daily line of work dealing with people with distorded or altered state of mind. The science has not gotten so far to explain most of these effects empirically.

There is a lot to take into account in the distance that we must have from the mouth to the capsule.
As a vocal coach I am interested in the tone of voice of each individual. certain people have more or less natural twang in their voice (boost around 2.5K / 4K) the further south you go, the more people are outside, the more twang they uses. This sound is well known in country vocals. Same in west Africa, in Napoli Italia, Mexico etc...There is also some kind of people that have more or less acoustic pressure in there voice. The proximity effect: a very quiet voice with you mouth very close to the mic, makes the tone of you voice big and beautiful. Bossa nova was invented because people where singing very quietly in there living room. Bossa nova was recorded with the proximity effect.
The ear does not hear all frequencies linearly at the same volume. The ear canal make a filter that boost the frequency around 3K on different sound pressure . Here is a very interesting article about how the hear works. https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/how-ear-works

 

[Khron]

The ear does not hear all frequencies linearly at the same volume. The ear canal make a filter that boost the frequency around 3K. Here is a very interesting article about how the hear works. https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/how-ear-works

Isn't that what the Fletcher-Munson curves are all about? Basically the inverse of the graphs in that picture...

 

[Papa Tango Charly]

The 2 graphics goes together, it's in the article... ))))

The Fletcher-Munson (Robinson and Datson) chart 2 at 1K that you hear is very stable, it stays at the same level throughout the SPL (telephone strategy and old mic strategy)
Around an equivalent frequency you will not hear the sound in the same way. Around 3K At 40dB, 80dB and 120dB you hear does not have the same perceptions, very interesting isn't it?

Quote "When writing or producing music, how easily the ear gets confused can also work to your advantage. Knowing how the ear works means you have a head start when it comes to shape the message you want your listeners to receive"

 

[Comakepi]

Les 2 graphismes vont ensemble, c'est dans l'article... ))))

La carte Fletcher-Munson (Robinson et Datson) 2 à 1K que vous entendez est très stable, elle reste au même niveau tout au long du SPL (stratégie téléphonique et ancienne stratégie micro)
Autour d’une fréquence équivalente vous n’entendrez pas le son de la même manière. Autour du 3K A 40dB, 80dB et 120dB on entend pas les mêmes perceptions, très intéressant non ?

Citation "Lorsque vous écrivez ou produisez de la musique, la facilité avec laquelle l'oreille se confond peut également être à votre avantage. Connaître le fonctionnement de l'oreille signifie que vous avez une longueur d'avance lorsqu'il s'agit de façonner le message que vous souhaitez que vos auditeurs reçoivent"

View attachment 129209

That's why i love some much the Yamaha Dynamic Eq in live event

 

[Papa Tango Charly]

That's why i love some much the Yamaha Dynamic Eq in live event

I love it! when a singer knows how to use a mic it's become fantastic! it needs skills too! )) Teeth and smile gives a brighter tone too

 

[kingkorg]

There is a lot to take into account in the distance that we must have from the mouth to the capsule.
As a vocal coach I am interested in the tone of voice of each individual. certain people have more or less natural twang in their voice (boost around 2.5K / 4K) the further south you go, the more people are outside, the more twang they uses. This sound is well known in country vocals. Same in west Africa, in Napoli Italia, Mexico etc...There is also some kind of people that have more or less acoustic pressure in there voice. The proximity effect: a very quiet voice with you mouth very close to the mic, makes the tone of you voice big and beautiful. Bossa nova was invented because people where singing very quietly in there living room. Bossa nova was recorded with the proximity effect.
The ear does not hear all frequencies linearly at the same volume. The ear canal make a filter that boost the frequency around 3K on different sound pressure . Here is a very interesting article about how the hear works. https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/how-ear-worksView attachment 129205

Sure. I have nothing against using a mic upclose, but in that case you absolutely have to be aware of talent's movement. It's a balancing act.

 

[terry setter]

I had the pleasure of working with English singer Cleo Lane. She had the most well-developed microphone technique of anyone I've ever worked with. Among instrumentalists, Stan Getz was also very aware of how to "use" a mic, as well as the overall sound that was reaching the audience, but Cleo was in a class by herself. I would set the level of her vocal mic, and she did the rest; not just volume control, but also where she placed the mic to get timbral variety. I just sat back and listened while she made her magic. Sadly, I've never heard a recording of her that captured the power and presence she had when performing for a live audience. Just maybe, that's because for studio recordings, she probably had to sing into a large mic on a large boom stand that was fixed in one particular spot.

 

[joulupukki]

Wow! I just picked up a used AKG P420, added a cheap 470pF 1KV ceramic cap I had to the existing surface-mount 220pF and it sounds GREAT! Just compared it with the DIY U87 I built in an Aurycle A460 donor body (with the Dany Bouchard PCB, Arienne Audio K87 capsule, and 3U transformer). The modded AKG P420 has a LOT more volume at much lower preamp gain and it sounds nearly identical. For a $50 used purchase on the local classifieds, this is a steal! Thanks to all for this thread and info!

 

[micolas]

Wow! I just picked up a used AKG P420, added a cheap 470pF 1KV ceramic cap I had to the existing surface-mount 220pF and it sounds GREAT! Just compared it with the DIY U87 I built in an Aurycle A460 donor body (with the Dany Bouchard PCB, Arienne Audio K87 capsule, and 3U transformer). The modded AKG P420 has a LOT more volume at much lower preamp gain and it sounds nearly identical. For a $50 used purchase on the local classifieds, this is a steal! Thanks to all for this thread and info!

It's very versatile, with more headroom.

 

[mikes425]

Got a question here. Based on photos can you help me identify IF this AKG 220 was in fact modified? It was said to have been modded with a 510 pF ceramic cap. I'm a talent who outsources this kind of thing, and where I would expect to see the new cap on the surface mount.. I don't. Appreciate any input! Possible that it was situated on the other side of the board? Thanks!

 

[Khron]

Got a question here. Based on photos can you help me identify IF this AKG 220 was in fact modified? It was said to have been modded with a 510 pF ceramic cap. I'm a talent who outsources this kind of thing, and where I would expect to see the new cap on the surface mount.. I don't. Appreciate any input! Possible that it was situated on the other side of the board? Thanks!

The whatever-pF capacitor there looks "too" factory-soldered to have ever been touched by a human hand (imho). Should be that light-grey one between the "272"-marked resistor, the black tantalum cap and the brown 100nf (or so) ceramic capacitor. I doubt there's any way to place another capacitor on the other side of the board, without running wires to this bottom side of the board.

Not that you couldn't take a quick peek by undoing those four Philips-head screws that fasten the headbasket on...

 

[micolas]

Got a question here. Based on photos can you help me identify IF this AKG 220 was in fact modified? It was said to have been modded with a 510 pF ceramic cap. I'm a talent who outsources this kind of thing, and where I would expect to see the new cap on the surface mount.. I don't. Appreciate any input! Possible that it was situated on the other side of the board? Thanks!

I rotated a little the picture of your microphone, brought it closer in size and color shade to the KingKorg's picture
At first glance the ceramic capacitor in your mic looks stock, but it's hard to tell without measuring it.Solders have the same appearance, a bit dull, oxidized, a recent solder would be more glossy. They seem to have been made in the factory some time ago
For comparison, link to @kingkorg 's original post:

https://groupdiy.com/threads/akg-pe...min-mod-p200-p100-p400-p420.67473/post-857099

 

[mikes425]

The whatever-pF capacitor there looks "too" factory-soldered to have ever been touched by a human hand (imho). Should be that light-grey one between the "272"-marked resistor, the black tantalum cap and the brown 100nf (or so) ceramic capacitor. I doubt there's any way to place another capacitor on the other side of the board, without running wires to this bottom side of the board.

Not that you couldn't take a quick peek by undoing those four Philips-head screws that fasten the headbasket on...

Thanks for confirming. It's flipping me out that this was not done!!! I guess i'll have to do due diligence and look at the other side but i can't fathom why the cap would be placed there!

 

[spiro.sekulovski]

2023 Update:
Just got a image from the producer I modified first two ever for. High end production facility. These guys can choose any mic they'd like, including original, vintage u87 these were moded after, but seem to keep coming back to these 6 years later.
View attachment 114745

@kingkorg what model are these? The Perception 220 or Perception 420?
I'm looking to buy a used AKG in Europe and I'm trying to decide which model to get. I noticed that I can find a used Perception 220 for 60-80 euros, but I can't find a used Perception 420 for less than 200 euros, which is weird because a brand new P420 is 188€ on Thomman at the moment.

 

[kingkorg]

@kingkorg what model are these? The Perception 220 or Perception 420?
I'm looking to buy a used AKG in Europe and I'm trying to decide which model to get. I noticed that I can find a used Perception 220 for 60-80 euros, but I can't find a used Perception 420 for less than 200 euros, which is weird because a brand new P420 is 188€ on Thomman at the moment.

220 is cardioid, 420 is multipattern. The modification applies to both.

 

[cholmes777]

Well ive been soldering and repairing studio equipment for years,
So decide to give my old perception 420 a shot on this mod….
My first time ever dealing with smd and yup rip off the pads off the circuit board trying to remove the 220smd so i cant solder in a 680pf film capacitor….

But am i losing my mind- the mic still works fine and sounds the same????

Buying another cheap one this week and will try again

 

[Paul W]

Well ive been soldering and repairing studio equipment for years,
So decide to give my old perception 420 a shot on this mod….
My first time ever dealing with smd and yup rip off the pads off the circuit board trying to remove the 220smd so i cant solder in a 680pf film capacitor….

But am i losing my mind- the mic still works fine and sounds the same????

Buying another cheap one this week and will try again

Post a good close up picture. I'm wondering how you ripped the pads off, if you actually did--did you actually pry the capacitor off the board without liquefying the solder at even one end?

If you did, I'm wondering if you could scrape the coating off nearby traces and solder to those.

(I've got 4 Perception 200s waiting to be modded, and I'm interested in how things can go wrong, and how to fix them.)