JohnRoberts said:I have been following this and several of the police have been acquitted already in separate trials. However they have been pretty much convicted in the press, so the public will be very unhappy if they do not get their pound of flesh.
JohnRoberts said:Baltimore police are already working on reforms, something like $10M extra funds budgeted to help correct known issues (total city budget >$B).
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I know I am repeating myself but bad apples in police departments everywhere need to be culled out.kambo said:JohnRoberts said:I have been following this and several of the police have been acquitted already in separate trials. However they have been pretty much convicted in the press, so the public will be very unhappy if they do not get their pound of flesh.
thats not nice...
my understanding is, in general Police Officers are responding according to their trainings... if you dont teach and train them properly, how exactly you gonna convict them...
(obviously u cant commit a crime and say i didnt know the law )
JohnRoberts said:Baltimore police are already working on reforms, something like $10M extra funds budgeted to help correct known issues (total city budget >$B).
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i think every city/state needs to do this.
there is no harm on extra education and knowledge. at the end, everybody will benefit from it.
JohnRoberts said:I know I am repeating myself but bad apples in police departments everywhere need to be culled out.kambo said:JohnRoberts said:I have been following this and several of the police have been acquitted already in separate trials. However they have been pretty much convicted in the press, so the public will be very unhappy if they do not get their pound of flesh.
thats not nice...
my understanding is, in general Police Officers are responding according to their trainings... if you dont teach and train them properly, how exactly you gonna convict them...
(obviously u cant commit a crime and say i didnt know the law )
JohnRoberts said:The Baltimore police chief says he has fired 6 officers this year already for bad behavior.
JohnRoberts said:They are already working to fix this, the federal report appears a little political to me, but pretty much everything from this administration looks like political messaging of some sort.
I hope the report is calming and not inflaming tensions that are already high.
JR
Without putting the truth out there you never change anything. Wiping it under the rug just serves to perpetuate a status quo. And I find it odd that this would be "political messaging". The report is either wrong or right in its claims. I don't see what this administration has to do with this outside of the president not being white to be frank.
mattiasNYC said:JohnRoberts said:I know I am repeating myself but bad apples in police departments everywhere need to be culled out.
The officers acquitted in Baltimore recently were all part of the same case regarding Freddie Gray. If this had been a non-police organization you could possibly have tried to convict the organization as a whole rather than allow the suspects to play ignorant or blame each other. For those who don't know what I'm talking about just google Freddie Gray.
By the way, I do understand why there were acquittals, and I'm not 100% sure anyone should have been convicted or if all should have been on 'lesser' charges.
JohnRoberts said:The Baltimore police chief says he has fired 6 officers this year already for bad behavior.
Firing officers "for bad behavior" is one thing, and better than nothing, but far from what some of them deserve. We all know cops got each others backs so it's no wonder the populations that perceive disproportional mistreatment think firings are farts in the wind and nothing more. A cop responsible of manslaughter gets to walk, or perhaps gets fired. Now try the reverse with a civilian responsible of manslaughtering a cop.....
JohnRoberts said:They are already working to fix this, the federal report appears a little political to me, but pretty much everything from this administration looks like political messaging of some sort.
I hope the report is calming and not inflaming tensions that are already high.
JR
Without putting the truth out there you never change anything. Wiping it under the rug just serves to perpetuate a status quo. And I find it odd that this would be "political messaging". The report is either wrong or right in its claims. I don't see what this administration has to do with this outside of the president not being white to be frank.
JohnRoberts said:we should not look at the police as us vs. them.
JR
JohnRoberts said:In case you haven't noticed we are in the middle of a political campaign so pretty much everything is political.
I'll repeat one more time for the cheap seats... we should not look at the police as us vs. them. Bad cops need to be rooted out and local community relations between the good police and good citizens mended.
JR
kambo said:high rank Police officers are always defending their patrol Police officers, for extreme use of force, or unnecessary shooting, because they have no idea about the Law nor Constitutional rights either....
mattiasNYC said:kambo said:high rank Police officers are always defending their patrol Police officers, for extreme use of force, or unnecessary shooting, because they have no idea about the Law nor Constitutional rights either....
I have to disagree with that. I think a lot of commanders and higher-ups in the police departments know the law pretty well. But there's a difference between what the law and the constitution says and what happens in practice. You can literally commit manslaughter using a technique banned by the NYPD and not only get support by the NYPD and police union, but then demand support from the Mayer and when you don't get it turn your back against him like a little child.
They know they're on the edge or other side of the law. They just don't really care as long as they think they'll get away with it.
They are the law until the legal system does something to show otherwise... and they know it.
PS: Look at the 12 officers suing the NYPD/New York over being punished for not obeying orders they considered to be unconstitutional. It shows clearly that police officers know what's going on a lot of the time.
kambo said:i used the comment of "because they have no idea about the Law nor Constitutional rights either.... "
because, they sounded like they had no idea...
if they know the law and Constitutional rights and acting as the way you are saying, than this is very very dangerous!
isnt it criminal ?
I try not to argue about what people think, let alone why they think something. It is difficult to impossible to know for sure even when people tell you (cough).mattiasNYC said:kambo said:i used the comment of "because they have no idea about the Law nor Constitutional rights either.... "
because, they sounded like they had no idea...
if they know the law and Constitutional rights and acting as the way you are saying, than this is very very dangerous!
isnt it criminal ?
It's dangerous and some of it unconstitutional. They don't care. Because a lot of people don't care. People don't care because it always happens to "them". "They" probably did something wrong and deserve it. "We" don't have anything to fear.
JohnRoberts said:I try not to argue about what people think, let alone why they think something. It is difficult to impossible to know for sure even when people tell you (cough).mattiasNYC said:kambo said:i used the comment of "because they have no idea about the Law nor Constitutional rights either.... "
because, they sounded like they had no idea...
if they know the law and Constitutional rights and acting as the way you are saying, than this is very very dangerous!
isnt it criminal ?
It's dangerous and some of it unconstitutional. They don't care. Because a lot of people don't care. People don't care because it always happens to "them". "They" probably did something wrong and deserve it. "We" don't have anything to fear.
Seems there are plenty of facts to argue about here. I am concerned about how inflamed this issue may become as politicians stir the pot and try to leverage off the heat for personal gain. (sorry I am making unknown speculations about "why" politicians are injecting themselves.... mea culpa)
JR
JohnRoberts said:I am concerned about how inflamed this issue may become as politicians stir the pot and try to leverage off the heat for personal gain.
The US constitution is the ultimate law of the land (this land).mattiasNYC said:Should the commanders in NYC that tell officers to violate the US constitution be removed as well?
JohnRoberts said:The US constitution is the ultimate law of the land (this land).mattiasNYC said:Should the commanders in NYC that tell officers to violate the US constitution be removed as well?
I think anybody who defies the constitution needs to be corrected (including the administration), while this needs to be handled through the judicial process (they need to follow the constitution too.)
Too many in government these days think the constitution is just an archaic suggestion.... it's the law.
JR
JohnRoberts said:I've argued that one before too...
Jr
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