Donald trump. what is your take on him?
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JR
JR
pucho812
Well-known member
Going into the debate I thought the debate would have taken him down a level or two. But after the debate. It Looks like he maintained. What's interesting is not so much he is the front runner on the gop side so much as out of the top 4 in the polls, 3 out of 4, ben carson, carly fiorina, and trump never held a public office and the 4th one is ted cruz who has not been around that long.
sounds to me like the people they polling are tried of the people who have been there for a long time as it seems to be the same old song and dance. would new blood be any different? I don't know but it is interesting none the less.
sounds to me like the people they polling are tried of the people who have been there for a long time as it seems to be the same old song and dance. would new blood be any different? I don't know but it is interesting none the less.
I didn't watch the debates but it's impossible to avoid the highlights reel. It seems like Trump said several things that would end most candidate campaigns but somehow gets away with it. Bragging that he paid to play with the Clinton charity should damn him as a crony capitalist, but apparently not.pucho812 said:
Which poll is that? Real politics has Trump followed by Bush, Walker, Huckabee, 3 former or current governors. Being a governor is actually good executive experience for the top job.
Ben Carson is 5th with a respectable 5.8% but Carly is only at 1.3%. Ben Carson is a good man, perhaps to good to be a president. Carly ran for office in CA and got spanked, but she learned from that and is a much more effective politician now. She stood out of the crowd at the children's table junior debate, but may not fare that well against the big boys. As a woman she could have some value as a VP candidate to offset Hillary's promise of a historic first woman president.
Yes after a bunch of election cycles the promises (all lies) all sound the same... The primaries always become exercises in extreme right or extreme left pandering to the two different bases, while increasingly the elections get decided by independent swing voters, so primary success is far from the recipe for general election success.
Hillary should have an easier ride almost unopposed in her party, while Bernie Sanders with his surprising crowds, has her ramping up her give-aways, and threats of Biden running are being floated.
The biggest potential joker in this is an expected old money Clinton-Bush contest, with Trump running as a third party spoiler. With Clinton v. Bush, I can imagine even a Trump pulling a large protest vote (for anybody but them).
Always the optimist there are several good candidates in play, while my pick hasn't won for several recent elections, I have no reason to believe this time will be different. Election will probably be decided by deep pockets and best political machine (to get out the vote) and right now the democrats appear to have an edge.
While I do not need to stretch to be cynical, a lot of the recent news when viewed through a political lens looks engineered to mobilize the base and get out voters.
Of course maybe I'm wrong... ;D ;D ;D
JR
Over this side of the world, the analysis is that Americans are picking candidates that are the farthest removed from the Washington circus of lobbyists and vested interests.
They are putting Trump first followed by Ted Cruz and Carly Fiorina and Ben Carson.
That reasoning is familiar over here when politicians are seen as out of touch with the general public.
DaveP
They are putting Trump first followed by Ted Cruz and Carly Fiorina and Ben Carson.
That reasoning is familiar over here when politicians are seen as out of touch with the general public.
DaveP
But from where I'm sitting Trump is one of those crony capitalist vested interests.DaveP said:
Running as a Washington outsider who if elected will be different is so common that it's a cliche.
Obama promised an open administration that would clean up government...
Carly is getting good recognition for her persistent attacks on Hillary. And respect for defending her attack when questioned by the liberal apologist press. http://mic.com/articles/123551/carly-fiorina-completely-owned-chris-matthews-after-first-republican-debate At least one candidate has her eye on the ball. perhaps entertaining TV but far from ready for a general election.
The interesting thing about her exchange with Chris Matthews is how much he suffers from "group think" He typically is surrounded by other liberal/progressives so they just hold hands and hum Kumbya while dissing people who don't think like they do. Chris literally had difficulty accepting that somebody could say out loud that Hillary lied, while the evidence that she has been less than forthright a number of times seems irrefutable.
I often see group think in the commentary from both sides that interpret identical events completely differently. The interpretation of the Iran deal is a perfect example of how differently the two sides view the same facts.
Interesting times, but politics is not the highest example of honorable human behavior.
JR
pucho812
Well-known member
JohnRoberts said:
Another gem from JR
Winetree
Well-known member
Be sure to read this and look at what Trump’s platform he is standing on… it is what I like; what about you? It is lengthy – but don’t delete – just put aside and read later. You will be glad. You will see why both Rep. and Dem.’s are worried.
Peggy Noonan wrote about Trump this weekend in her WSJ column. I think many of us think he has some good thoughts about America, and what our country needs. But, he blows up and filibusters, which turns us off. However, do you know him in depth, or about how he feels and thinks. Read on! Good info,
Trump - Things You Might Not Know About Him
As candidates for president emerge it is important to know where each stands on issues that are important to AMERICA. The USA cannot afford to make another mistake in electing an anti-American Socialist, someone with a poor track record of public service, or someone who values illegal invaders more than hard-working, loyal Americans and her military.
Trump, hopefully, is waking some of the RINOs up. The criticisms of Trump are amazingly missing something. They are lacking in negative stories from those who work for him or have had business dealings with him. After all the employees he’s had and all the business deals he’s made there is a void of criticism. In fact, long term employees call him a strong and merciful leader and say he is far more righteous and of high integrity than people may think. And while it may surprise many, he’s actually humble when it comes to his generosity and kindness. A good example is a story that tells of his limo breaking down on a deserted highway outside of New York City. A middle-aged couple stopped to help him and as a thank you he paid off their mortgage, but he didn’t brag about that. Generous and good people rarely talk of charity they bestow on others.But as much as all this is interesting, the real thing that people want to know is what Donald Trump’s plan is for America. It’s funny how so many people say they don’t know what it is, or they act like Trump is hiding it. The information is readily available if people would just do a little homework. But, since most Americans won't do their own research, here, in no particular order, is an overview of many of Trumps positions and plans:
1.) Trump believes that America should not intervene militarily in other country’s problems without being compensated for doing so. If America is going to risk the lives of our soldiers and incur the expense of going to war, then the nations we help must be willing to pay for our help. Using the Iraq War as an example, he cites the huge monetary expense to American taxpayers (over $1.5 trillion, and possibly much more depending on what sources are used to determine the cost) in addition to the cost in human life. He suggests that Iraq should have been required to give us enough of their oil to pay for the expenses we incurred. He includes in those expenses the medical costs for our military and $5 million for each family that lost a loved one in the war and $2 million for each family of soldiers who received severe injuries.
2.) Speaking of the military, Trump wants America to have a strong military again. He believes the single most important function of the federal government is national defense. He has said he wants to find the General Patton or General MacArthur that could lead our military buildup back to the strength it needs to be. While he hasn’t said it directly that I know of, Trump’s attitude about America and about winning tells me he’d most likely be quick to eliminate rules of engagement that handicap our military in battle. Clearly Trump is a “win at all costs” kind of guy, and I’m sure that would apply to our national defense and security, too.
3.) Trump wants a strong foreign policy and believes that it must include 7 core principles (which seem to support my comment in the last point):
American interests come first. Always. No apologies.
Maximum firepower and military preparedness.
Only go to war to win.
Stay loyal to your friends and suspicious of your enemies.
Keep the technological sword razor sharp.
See the unseen. Prepare for threats before they materialize.
Respect and support our present and past warriors.
4.) Trump believes that terrorists who are captured should be treated as military combatants, not as criminals like the Obama administration treats them.
5.) Trump makes the point that China’s manipulation of their currency has given them unfair advantage in our trade dealings with them. He says we must tax their imports to offset their currency manipulation, which will cause American companies to be competitive again and drive manufacturing back to America and create jobs here.
Although he sees China as the biggest offender, he believes that America should protect itself from all foreign efforts to take our jobs and manufacturing. For example, Ford is building a plant in Mexico and Trump suggests that every part or vehicle Ford makes in Mexico be taxed 35% if they want to bring it into the U. S., which would cause companies like Ford to no longer be competitive using their Mexican operations and move manufacturing back to the U.S., once again creating jobs here.
6.) Trump wants passage of NOPEC legislation (No Oil Producing and Exporting Cartels Act – NOPEC – S.394), which would allow the government to sue OPEC for violating antitrust laws. According to Trump, that would break up the cartel. He also wants to unleash our energy companies to drill domestically (sound like Sarah Palin’s drill baby, drill?) thereby increasing domestic production creating jobs and driving domestic costs of oil and gas down while reducing dependence on foreign oil.
7.) Trump believes a secure border is critical for both security and prosperity in America. He wants to build a wall to stop illegals from entering and put controls on immigration. (And he says he’ll get Mexico to pay for the wall, which many have scoffed at, but given his business successes I wouldn’t put it past him.) He also wants to enforce our immigration laws and provide no path to citizenship for illegals.
8.) Trump wants a radical change to the tax system to not only make it better for average Americans, but also to encourage businesses to stay here and foreign businesses to move here. The resulting influx of money to our nation would do wonders for our economy. He wants to make America the place to do business. He also wants to lower the death tax and the taxes on capital gains and dividends. This would put more than $1.6 trillion back into the economy and help rebuild the 1.5 million jobs we’ve lost to the current tax system. He also wants to charge companies who outsource jobs overseas a 20% tax, but for those willing to move jobs back to America they would not be taxed. And for citizens he has a tax plan that would allow Americans to keep more of what they earn and spark economic growth. He wants to change the personal income tax to:
Up to $30,000 taxed at 1%
From $30,000 to $100,000 taxed at 5%
From $100,000 to $1,000,000 taxed at 10%
$1,000,000 and above taxed at 15%
9.) Trump wants Obamacare repealed. He says it’s a “job-killing, health care-destroying monstrosity” that “can’t be reformed, salvaged, or fixed.” He believes in allowing real competition in the health insurance marketplace to allow competition to drive prices down. He also believes in tort reform to get rid of defensive medicine and lower costs.
10.) Trump wants spending reforms in Washington, acknowledging that America spends far more than it receives in revenue. He has said he believes that if we don’t stop increasing the national debt once it hits $24 trillion it will be impossible to save this country.
11.) Even though he says we need to cut spending, he does not want to harm those on Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security. He believes that the citizens have faithfully paid in to the system to have these services available and that the American government has an obligation to fulfill its end of the bargain and provide those benefits. Therefore, he wants to build the economy up so that we have the revenue to pay those costs without cutting the benefits to the recipients. He disagrees with Democrats who think raising taxes is the answer and says that when you do that you stifle the economy. On the other hand, when you lower taxes and create an environment to help businesses they will grow, hire more workers, and those new workers will be paying taxes that become more tax revenue for the government.
12.) Trump also wants reform of the welfare state saying that America needs “a safety net, not a hammock.” He believes in a welfare to work program that would help reduce the welfare roles and encourage people to get back to work. And he wants a crackdown on entitlement fraud.
13.) Trump believes climate change is a hoax.
14.) Trump opposes Common Core.
15.) Trump is pro-life, although he allows for an exception due to rape, incest, or the life of the mother.
16.) Trump is pro 2nd Amendment rights.
17.) Trump’s view on same-sex marriage is that marriage is between a man and a woman, but he also believes that this is a states rights issue, not a federal issue.
18.) Trump supports the death penalty. Trump believes that there is a lack of common sense, innovative thinking in Washington (Hmmm… looks like he believes in horse sense!). He says it’s about seeing the unseen and that’s the kind of thinking we need to turn this country around. He tells a personal story to illustrate the point: “When I opened Trump National Golf Club at Rancho Palos Verdes in Los Angeles, I was immediately told that I would need to build a new and costly ballroom. The current ballroom was gorgeous, but it only sat 200 people and we were losing business because people needed a larger space for their events. Building a new ballroom would take years to get approval and permits (since it’s on the Pacific Ocean), and cost about $5 million. I took one look at the ballroom and saw immediately what needed to be done. The problem wasn’t the size of the room, it was the size of the chairs. They were huge, heavy, and unwieldy. We didn’t need a bigger ballroom, we needed smaller chairs! So I had them replaced with high-end, smaller chairs. I then had our people sell the old chairs and got more money for them than the cost of the new chairs. In the end, the ballroom went from seating 200 people to seating 320 people. Our visitors got the space they desired, and I spared everyone the hassle of years of construction and $5 million of expense. It’s amazing what you can accomplish with a little common sense. On top of his saving years of construction and $5 million in expenses, he also was able to keep the ballroom open for business during the time it would have been under remodeling, which allowed him to continue to make money on the space instead of losing that revenue during construction time.
Donald Trump’s entire life has been made up of success and winning. He’s been accused of bankruptcies, but that’s not true. He’s never filed personal bankruptcy. He’s bought companies and legally used bankruptcy laws to restructure their debt, just as businesses do all the time. But he’s never been bankrupt personally. He’s a fighter that clearly loves America and would fight for our nation. Earlier I quoted Trump saying, “I love America. And when you love something, you protect it passionately – fiercely, even.” We never hear that from Democrats or even from most Republicans. Donald Trump is saying things that desperately need to be said but no other candidate has shown the fortitude to stand up and say them. Looking over this list of what he wants for America I see a very necessary set of goals that are long past due. Before we criticize someone because the media does, maybe we should seriously consider what he has to offer, as it is important to know what each of our candidates to replace a President who has ruined us globally, and who has put us on a path to disaster!
This is not an appeal to vote for Trump, only to give some depth of comparison, before this week's debate.
Peggy Noonan wrote about Trump this weekend in her WSJ column. I think many of us think he has some good thoughts about America, and what our country needs. But, he blows up and filibusters, which turns us off. However, do you know him in depth, or about how he feels and thinks. Read on! Good info,
Trump - Things You Might Not Know About Him
As candidates for president emerge it is important to know where each stands on issues that are important to AMERICA. The USA cannot afford to make another mistake in electing an anti-American Socialist, someone with a poor track record of public service, or someone who values illegal invaders more than hard-working, loyal Americans and her military.
Trump, hopefully, is waking some of the RINOs up. The criticisms of Trump are amazingly missing something. They are lacking in negative stories from those who work for him or have had business dealings with him. After all the employees he’s had and all the business deals he’s made there is a void of criticism. In fact, long term employees call him a strong and merciful leader and say he is far more righteous and of high integrity than people may think. And while it may surprise many, he’s actually humble when it comes to his generosity and kindness. A good example is a story that tells of his limo breaking down on a deserted highway outside of New York City. A middle-aged couple stopped to help him and as a thank you he paid off their mortgage, but he didn’t brag about that. Generous and good people rarely talk of charity they bestow on others.But as much as all this is interesting, the real thing that people want to know is what Donald Trump’s plan is for America. It’s funny how so many people say they don’t know what it is, or they act like Trump is hiding it. The information is readily available if people would just do a little homework. But, since most Americans won't do their own research, here, in no particular order, is an overview of many of Trumps positions and plans:
1.) Trump believes that America should not intervene militarily in other country’s problems without being compensated for doing so. If America is going to risk the lives of our soldiers and incur the expense of going to war, then the nations we help must be willing to pay for our help. Using the Iraq War as an example, he cites the huge monetary expense to American taxpayers (over $1.5 trillion, and possibly much more depending on what sources are used to determine the cost) in addition to the cost in human life. He suggests that Iraq should have been required to give us enough of their oil to pay for the expenses we incurred. He includes in those expenses the medical costs for our military and $5 million for each family that lost a loved one in the war and $2 million for each family of soldiers who received severe injuries.
2.) Speaking of the military, Trump wants America to have a strong military again. He believes the single most important function of the federal government is national defense. He has said he wants to find the General Patton or General MacArthur that could lead our military buildup back to the strength it needs to be. While he hasn’t said it directly that I know of, Trump’s attitude about America and about winning tells me he’d most likely be quick to eliminate rules of engagement that handicap our military in battle. Clearly Trump is a “win at all costs” kind of guy, and I’m sure that would apply to our national defense and security, too.
3.) Trump wants a strong foreign policy and believes that it must include 7 core principles (which seem to support my comment in the last point):
American interests come first. Always. No apologies.
Maximum firepower and military preparedness.
Only go to war to win.
Stay loyal to your friends and suspicious of your enemies.
Keep the technological sword razor sharp.
See the unseen. Prepare for threats before they materialize.
Respect and support our present and past warriors.
4.) Trump believes that terrorists who are captured should be treated as military combatants, not as criminals like the Obama administration treats them.
5.) Trump makes the point that China’s manipulation of their currency has given them unfair advantage in our trade dealings with them. He says we must tax their imports to offset their currency manipulation, which will cause American companies to be competitive again and drive manufacturing back to America and create jobs here.
Although he sees China as the biggest offender, he believes that America should protect itself from all foreign efforts to take our jobs and manufacturing. For example, Ford is building a plant in Mexico and Trump suggests that every part or vehicle Ford makes in Mexico be taxed 35% if they want to bring it into the U. S., which would cause companies like Ford to no longer be competitive using their Mexican operations and move manufacturing back to the U.S., once again creating jobs here.
6.) Trump wants passage of NOPEC legislation (No Oil Producing and Exporting Cartels Act – NOPEC – S.394), which would allow the government to sue OPEC for violating antitrust laws. According to Trump, that would break up the cartel. He also wants to unleash our energy companies to drill domestically (sound like Sarah Palin’s drill baby, drill?) thereby increasing domestic production creating jobs and driving domestic costs of oil and gas down while reducing dependence on foreign oil.
7.) Trump believes a secure border is critical for both security and prosperity in America. He wants to build a wall to stop illegals from entering and put controls on immigration. (And he says he’ll get Mexico to pay for the wall, which many have scoffed at, but given his business successes I wouldn’t put it past him.) He also wants to enforce our immigration laws and provide no path to citizenship for illegals.
8.) Trump wants a radical change to the tax system to not only make it better for average Americans, but also to encourage businesses to stay here and foreign businesses to move here. The resulting influx of money to our nation would do wonders for our economy. He wants to make America the place to do business. He also wants to lower the death tax and the taxes on capital gains and dividends. This would put more than $1.6 trillion back into the economy and help rebuild the 1.5 million jobs we’ve lost to the current tax system. He also wants to charge companies who outsource jobs overseas a 20% tax, but for those willing to move jobs back to America they would not be taxed. And for citizens he has a tax plan that would allow Americans to keep more of what they earn and spark economic growth. He wants to change the personal income tax to:
Up to $30,000 taxed at 1%
From $30,000 to $100,000 taxed at 5%
From $100,000 to $1,000,000 taxed at 10%
$1,000,000 and above taxed at 15%
9.) Trump wants Obamacare repealed. He says it’s a “job-killing, health care-destroying monstrosity” that “can’t be reformed, salvaged, or fixed.” He believes in allowing real competition in the health insurance marketplace to allow competition to drive prices down. He also believes in tort reform to get rid of defensive medicine and lower costs.
10.) Trump wants spending reforms in Washington, acknowledging that America spends far more than it receives in revenue. He has said he believes that if we don’t stop increasing the national debt once it hits $24 trillion it will be impossible to save this country.
11.) Even though he says we need to cut spending, he does not want to harm those on Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security. He believes that the citizens have faithfully paid in to the system to have these services available and that the American government has an obligation to fulfill its end of the bargain and provide those benefits. Therefore, he wants to build the economy up so that we have the revenue to pay those costs without cutting the benefits to the recipients. He disagrees with Democrats who think raising taxes is the answer and says that when you do that you stifle the economy. On the other hand, when you lower taxes and create an environment to help businesses they will grow, hire more workers, and those new workers will be paying taxes that become more tax revenue for the government.
12.) Trump also wants reform of the welfare state saying that America needs “a safety net, not a hammock.” He believes in a welfare to work program that would help reduce the welfare roles and encourage people to get back to work. And he wants a crackdown on entitlement fraud.
13.) Trump believes climate change is a hoax.
14.) Trump opposes Common Core.
15.) Trump is pro-life, although he allows for an exception due to rape, incest, or the life of the mother.
16.) Trump is pro 2nd Amendment rights.
17.) Trump’s view on same-sex marriage is that marriage is between a man and a woman, but he also believes that this is a states rights issue, not a federal issue.
18.) Trump supports the death penalty. Trump believes that there is a lack of common sense, innovative thinking in Washington (Hmmm… looks like he believes in horse sense!). He says it’s about seeing the unseen and that’s the kind of thinking we need to turn this country around. He tells a personal story to illustrate the point: “When I opened Trump National Golf Club at Rancho Palos Verdes in Los Angeles, I was immediately told that I would need to build a new and costly ballroom. The current ballroom was gorgeous, but it only sat 200 people and we were losing business because people needed a larger space for their events. Building a new ballroom would take years to get approval and permits (since it’s on the Pacific Ocean), and cost about $5 million. I took one look at the ballroom and saw immediately what needed to be done. The problem wasn’t the size of the room, it was the size of the chairs. They were huge, heavy, and unwieldy. We didn’t need a bigger ballroom, we needed smaller chairs! So I had them replaced with high-end, smaller chairs. I then had our people sell the old chairs and got more money for them than the cost of the new chairs. In the end, the ballroom went from seating 200 people to seating 320 people. Our visitors got the space they desired, and I spared everyone the hassle of years of construction and $5 million of expense. It’s amazing what you can accomplish with a little common sense. On top of his saving years of construction and $5 million in expenses, he also was able to keep the ballroom open for business during the time it would have been under remodeling, which allowed him to continue to make money on the space instead of losing that revenue during construction time.
Donald Trump’s entire life has been made up of success and winning. He’s been accused of bankruptcies, but that’s not true. He’s never filed personal bankruptcy. He’s bought companies and legally used bankruptcy laws to restructure their debt, just as businesses do all the time. But he’s never been bankrupt personally. He’s a fighter that clearly loves America and would fight for our nation. Earlier I quoted Trump saying, “I love America. And when you love something, you protect it passionately – fiercely, even.” We never hear that from Democrats or even from most Republicans. Donald Trump is saying things that desperately need to be said but no other candidate has shown the fortitude to stand up and say them. Looking over this list of what he wants for America I see a very necessary set of goals that are long past due. Before we criticize someone because the media does, maybe we should seriously consider what he has to offer, as it is important to know what each of our candidates to replace a President who has ruined us globally, and who has put us on a path to disaster!
This is not an appeal to vote for Trump, only to give some depth of comparison, before this week's debate.
A lot of that is good sense I will admit, however:-
Climate change is not a hoax (as an inorganic chemist in a past life) I know that when the British first measured CO2 in the air all around the world in the early 1800's they found it was the same everywhere (now we know that was due to diffusion) The graph of CO2 climbing is now exponential. At the time of the dinosaurs it was very hot because of the CO2 in the atmosphere and the oil and gas from dead vegetation had yet to be laid down underground; you don't have to be too smart to see that it will get hotter when you put the CO2 back in the air again.
The rate of evaporation from the oceans increases, as does the rainfall and wind energy, so more floods, more tornadoes and hurricanes and more forest fires. The ocean tries to absorb the CO2 making carbonic acid (like fizzy drinks) so the ocean becomes more acidic and species die.
Another Patton is to be avoided, he was obsessed with his own glory and destiny and didn't care how many American lives he spent to get it. He also slapped around soldiers with shell-shock in Sicily and got censored by Eisenhower for it.
DaveP
Climate change is not a hoax (as an inorganic chemist in a past life) I know that when the British first measured CO2 in the air all around the world in the early 1800's they found it was the same everywhere (now we know that was due to diffusion) The graph of CO2 climbing is now exponential. At the time of the dinosaurs it was very hot because of the CO2 in the atmosphere and the oil and gas from dead vegetation had yet to be laid down underground; you don't have to be too smart to see that it will get hotter when you put the CO2 back in the air again.
The rate of evaporation from the oceans increases, as does the rainfall and wind energy, so more floods, more tornadoes and hurricanes and more forest fires. The ocean tries to absorb the CO2 making carbonic acid (like fizzy drinks) so the ocean becomes more acidic and species die.
Another Patton is to be avoided, he was obsessed with his own glory and destiny and didn't care how many American lives he spent to get it. He also slapped around soldiers with shell-shock in Sicily and got censored by Eisenhower for it.
DaveP
living sounds
Well-known member
I think the right-wingers would be very surprised about the policies Trump would put up if he actually were elected.
I don't have the time to go through the post word by word, but it's brimfull of fallacies and misconceptions.
The worst misconception may be that there is a zero-sum way of "winning" for the US - which kind of implies the rest of the world will loose.
It's the hard working immigrants that keep the US economy afloat, and there is nothing more American that immigration.
What does the US currently do to their supposed "friends"? Spy on them! And the objectives are primarily economic if you look at what is actually spied at.
The tax plan is completely fantasy-based. All it would do is increase the deficit and inequality.
I could go on and on but let's leave it at that.
I don't have the time to go through the post word by word, but it's brimfull of fallacies and misconceptions.
The worst misconception may be that there is a zero-sum way of "winning" for the US - which kind of implies the rest of the world will loose.
It's the hard working immigrants that keep the US economy afloat, and there is nothing more American that immigration.
What does the US currently do to their supposed "friends"? Spy on them! And the objectives are primarily economic if you look at what is actually spied at.
The tax plan is completely fantasy-based. All it would do is increase the deficit and inequality.
I could go on and on but let's leave it at that.
Even the court jester serves a useful function by saying what everybody is thinking.Winetree said:
Are these from the Donald?
This is overly simplistic and equates all war to a dispute over some pile of resources (wealth).
Did we send a bill to the UK and France for supporting them in WWII? No we were doing it because it was the right thing to do.
Afghanistan is an extremely poor nation, based on the rationale that they should pay our expenses, they are out of luck.
That doesn't really say anything. Some argue we are far too engaged in far too many places around the world, and there is a fair argument defending that, but I can draw up a list if regions in the world that are suffering from the west's inattention. We can not unilaterally withdraw from the world's conflicts and expect things to magically turn out well. it's ugly out there. Trump does not impress me as having any military sensibility. Trump was declared 1-Y in '68 (only drafted during a declared war, Viet nam was not a real war), and 4-F (ineligible for service ) in 1972. I find his comments about McCain insensitive to say the least, and wouldn't hire him as commander in Chief. (I was drafted in 1970).
That should be a factor but we routinely provide humanitarian aid irrespective of out direct interest. We have provided aid to Iran after earthquakes in 2003 and 1012.
Not sure what that means... Sounds like a slogan not a policy. We don't need to cut the military budget like the current guy is, but I could see more drone/robot fighting and less meat on the battle field. While we still need boots on the ground for good intelligence about where to send the drones.
seriously?? While i guess that is a valid concern since Viet Nam when the media and politicians ripped defeat from the jaws of victory.
again duh, but the current administration seems to have funny ideas about who are the friends and who are the enemies. Unfortunately is rarely that clean cut and we often have relationships with countries so we can influence them and nudge them toward better behavior. I'm inclined to be suspicious of everybody. Trust but verify. measure twice cut once.
Again a slogan not a policy.
Now that's mumbo jumbo..
As Rumsfeld famously observed. "There are known knowns, and known unknowns, but also unknown unknowns..." things we don't even know that we don't know. 8)
Amen, he can start by apologizing to McCain
This is not trivial...
Treating them as criminals to be policed, is accepting that they will always be with us so the best we can do is punish them after the fact. A more proactive policy is to address the conflict more philosophically, how do we starve the energy that is powering young people to sign up to the terrorist group du jour? Until we address the root causes we are just putting bandages on the wound. While I do not have a solution just yet.. I do not accept the argument that we are causing this by our behavior.
A simplistic view of global trade and no doubt the recent devaluation will help their exports, but they devalued 2% and market forces took it down another 1%. Long term China wants to decouple from the dollar so the yuan can become a reserve currency too... The implications of the dollar losing more reserve currency power is very significant, but not because of Chinese behavior but our spending and borrowing and low growth policy. We will be lucky to turn in 2.5-3% GDP growth for the year... China is upset about only 5-7% growth.
That is just lame... global trade creates economic opportunity for both partners. Jobs are not a zero sum game like pawns on a chess board to count and hold onto. Trade will create new kinds of jobs that the old workers will need to retrain for.
Sue OPEC? If you want to break the cartel, start exporting US oil.. Even Obama is starting to loosen the hold on exports. Recently allowed us to trade US oil with Mexico for Mexican oil our refineries prefer.
While any wall would probably be build by Mexican labor ;D they would never pay for it, and that is a cartoonish over- simplification of the problem. If they couldn't find work and get free stuff here they wouldn't come. Thats where the crack down needs to be.
We need to eliminate the advantage of lower taxes in most other countries. We also need to fix the BS of taxing offshore earning when they are repatriated. There are literally billions and billions of US capital held offshore to avoid taxes. In the past there have been temporary amnesties to forgive one-time repatriations and business learned from that and are now waiting for the next deal... We need to fix it.
This is not a new concept or unique to trump... I bet the other 99 republican candidates have tax overhaul plans.
Huh, that does not compute.
that would just drive more companies overseas.
the government still needs tax revenue just to pay down the debt not to mention ongoing activity.
I fear it is too late to repeal, but we need to reform the worst parts and try to make some sense of it. As written it is a train wreck and the healthcare industry has already made many adjustments that can't be unwound.
Arbitrary.. we can survive on deficit spending as long as GDP growth is healthy... the recent <3% gdp growth certainly does not support our spending as the debt keeps growing. The real answer is to undo the damage to the economy that is depressing growth.
Again not sure the math adds up... Christie has been accused of wanting to cut SS but it seems he wants to rationalize it.
amen... in the last 6 years the entitlement rolls have grown and are still growing. We do have some anti-fraud departments but to little to thwart the tide of wholesale cheating.
The part about human activity being solely responsible, and that taxing carbon is a credible solution is a hoax. Classic government inventing a disaster to save us from by taking out money.
I am opposed to government controlled schools. There are many voucher systems that demonstrate superior results. We are not that far from home schooling with an IPAD,
sensible... in the republican primary there is a lot of hyperbolic posturing to pander to the christian right.
aren't we all...
Funny, before the SCOTUS made it legal they couldn't divorce if they married in one state than lived in another where it wasn't legal.
Death penalty is so last century.. can't we just zap them to clear the slate and start over? (humor).
I hope he doesn't buy an airline, imagine even smaller seats on planes?
Winning... maybe he can get Charlie Sheen as VP?
It is good to get these topics in discussion, but most already are. He just brings a showman's flair for spectacle to an audience that demands hyperbole to be heard.
many of the other 99 have good policy platforms but nobody will hear them. And it isn't about what you think should be done, but what can actually be accomplished.
JR
living sounds
Well-known member
JohnRoberts said:
The failed Iraq war policy clearly laid the ground work for much of the current predicament. But the actual motivations of terrorists are very different from what one might intuitively imagine or from what media reports suggest:
http://www.nature.com/news/looking-for-the-roots-of-terrorism-1.16732
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/04/jihad-fatal-attraction-challenge-democracies-isis-barbarism
It should not make us (the west) give up our principles. These are criminals, and they deserve to be treated as such. There's no need and no justification for the supposed class of "illegal combatants".
As for illegal immigration, facts again are stuborn things. Net migration from Mexico turned to zero and probably negative a few years ago. More immigrants to the US come from Asia now.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/immigration-is-changing-much-more-than-the-immigration-debate/
I am surely repeating myself but Iraq was finally secure after a bad start and years of fighting. Isil was allowed to develop and gain strength after the west pulled out security forces. I can't speak for the motivation of other nato countries , but our current president appears more motivated by a political promise than the facts on the ground. The fledgling shia majority was not respecting the sunni minority creating the opportunity that Isil capitalized on.living sounds said:
yes it is complicated.. I recall Bush assigning his lead PR person (i don't recall her name now) to engage in the middle east with the cultural conflict. Again an over-simplification. Now we have Aljazera TV broadcast in the US. But we are a free nation so invite criticism.
We need for Islam to rise up against the cancer within. But the smart spinners conflate war against terror with war against islam, which hurts the cause.
Most of the traffic across the souther border are from other south american countries that pass through an apparently porous mexico. Ironically perhaps we have crops rotting in the field because not enough (legal) temporary workers were allowed into the country. The politicians are posturing to gain future voters and ignoring the reality.
Back on topic, Trump is just saying what many people think but both extreme positions are wrong. We are a nation of immigrants and need to get immigration and naturalization back on a productive rational basis.
JR
mushy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2008
- Messages
- 680
You guys don't actually think Trump is really running, do you?
Guys. Let's not be naive. He has no interest in being president.
I have this fantasy that this is just a retelling of Trading Places, except instead of Randolph and Mortimer, we have the Kochs and Murdock. They have a $1 bet to see who can influence the election more.
Trump, would be played by Eddie Murphy in this movie.
Guys. Let's not be naive. He has no interest in being president.
I have this fantasy that this is just a retelling of Trading Places, except instead of Randolph and Mortimer, we have the Kochs and Murdock. They have a $1 bet to see who can influence the election more.
Trump, would be played by Eddie Murphy in this movie.
mushy said:
It's good to keep a cynical view of such things, but trump is hiring staff and setting up ground games in key states so he at least appears serious. I still don't see him going all the way, but it's past a practical joke. Trump would surely appreciate a bigger spotlight.
Speaking of jokers, SEC filings reveal that George Soros has recently bought millions of dollars worth of coal companies that have been hammered by Obama's anti-coal screed... I am not suggesting conspiracy but it is certainly opportunistic. We have hundreds of years worth of coal in the ground and aren't going to just leave it there.
Interesting times, stay objective.
JR
If he were a comedian, this would actually be funny
japan-u-s-security-alliance-not-fair-donald-trump-says
japan-u-s-security-alliance-not-fair-donald-trump-says
rob_gould
Well-known member
Winetree's list gives me shivers!
Surely things like this can't be deemed acceptable even in a political race?!
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/18/trump-fails-to-correct-questioner-who-calls-obama-muslim-and-not-even-american
Surely things like this can't be deemed acceptable even in a political race?!
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/18/trump-fails-to-correct-questioner-who-calls-obama-muslim-and-not-even-american
The Trump campaign's response is that the didn't hear the entire statement.rob_gould said:
This is small-ball and the media is trying too hard to stir up conflict. I couldn't watch the entire last debate (while I caught several highlights) it seems more like professional wrestling than a thoughtful political debate.
This should calm down some as more candidates drop out, but we are still a long way from the actual election (14 months). This is one problem with American politics where so much time and money is consumed by these contests. Evidence of how highly winning the offices are valued.
Growing government larger just makes winning elections more of a prize, perpetuating the big money involvement.
JR
PS: I remain surprised by trump's success and support. It is interesting to hear my 86 YO neighbor make excuses for him. I guess some people believe Trump can actually do the stuff he claims he can. Politics has always been about selling some promise or vision of the future and Trump's vision is getting some traction. More than I ever expected.
I can certainly see the attraction of having a successful business man in charge when you have a deficit and high unemployment. It does make more sense than continually drawing from a pool of lawyers. How it would work in practice I don't know, it might be more frustrating for him than he imagines. Take the deportation of illegals for instance, I don't think they will meekly go back across the border without long protracted legal appeals, the lawyers will make sure they get their cut. He is also assuming that he will have a majority in both congress and senate to get his bills through.
DaveP
DaveP
That is the visual... while his business success is building casinos, condominiums, and golf courses. Not to mention a few business (not personal) bankruptcies along the way.DaveP said:
Unemployment on paper looks low, but many have dropped out of the workforce, and/or are working less than full time jobs.
Deficit spending has dropped due to republican imposed budget discipline (sequester) that is expiring soon, setting up a new budget fight. While debt continues to grow ($18T?). Funding for planned parenthood will be a very emotionally charged budget argument.
The common thread is that lawyers are experienced at arguing positions (that they may not really believe in). Trump seems to be very good at arguing too.
The elephant in the room concerning immigration is that both parties are trying to win favor for future votes. A border wall is mostly symbolic, while I see some new fences going up in the Euro zone. Illegal immigration dropped significantly when the US economy collapsed, because they weren't making easy money. If you want to stop illegal immigration, stop their access to employment, or more recently entitlements. It becomes a simple economic decision. If there is no payday at the end of the journey they will stop coming.
Trump is big on bluster but his sweeping pronouncements sound unlikely to be doable.
We need to encourage productive immigration and discourage illegal. We have sanctuary cities openly ignoring the law regarding illegal immigrants. Allowing criminal illegal immigrants to return after being deported multiple times. I suspect their hearts are in the right place, but ignoring practical realities.
A good start would be for everybody to start following existing laws (including the constitution).
JR
