Obamacare and rate increases - report your results here

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lassoharp

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
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Dare I start another political topic here?

I'm posting this mainly as a survey to find out what the real experiences have been out there.  A number of people in my home state (NC) have seen pretty steep rate increases on their plans and right now there is but one provider in the state (BCBS) so all those who are under that provider are pretty much stuck - either stay with their existing plan and foot the outrageous hikes or enroll in OC and get only a slightly better rate that is still way higher than their old rate.

So, what's going on in other states?  Please share.
 
I'm in Connecticut, also have been on a BCBS plan. A few months ago I got a letter stating my rates would be going up. Just got the invoice in the mail over the weekend. Increase was almost 20%.
WTF :mad:
 
The other common thread I see here is BC bs.  My first encounter with them has been less than positive, and my allergist (whom I likely won't be able to afford to see under BC bs) told me she actually switched jobs to get away from having Blue Cross.

 
Any Wisconsin or CA residents out there?


Also, I meant to distinguish between two scenarios:

1) What change in rates was for those who simply stayed on their existing plans

2) What changes in rates has anyone seen when getting quotes for a new OC plan.

 
For what I have (GHC), It looks like the 2014 plans will be more expensive, depending on visits / costs.
The monthly premium is slightly more, then with co-insurance and the deductible, it could be much more if were to hit the yearly maximum out of pocket.
This is an individual plan though and I don't know what the group plan will be like. I am still looking into it.
 
I have no idea how this is going to work for two self-employed married people, in terms of how one can apply and how single/married rate income discounts will apply.  It appears at face value there is a marriage penalty.  Maybe a lot of people will get divorced as a result? 

If I do nothing, and let BCBS move me into the "most equivalent plan", my rate goes up 300%, before any discounts I can take.  They still only give 'full coverage' if in state, if something happens to me across state lines my out of pocket costs go way up.  That is an absolute fail; I probably spend 20% of my time in another state.  If we have to apply as a married couple and they look solely at joint income before standard deductions, we will pay full rate.  If we divorce under the same scenario, we probably both apply for some amount of discount. 

I wonder how I will successfully estimate my income in ANY coming year.  It seems like if I do qualify for any discounts, it will be like estimating advance tax payments TWICE, with double the possible amount owed or returned. 

I'm certain there's a lot I don't understand. 
 
dmp said:
For what I have (GHC), It looks like the 2014 plans will be more expensive, depending on visits / costs.
The monthly premium is slightly more, then with co-insurance and the deductible, it could be much more if were to hit the yearly maximum out of pocket.
This is an individual plan though and I don't know what the group plan will be like. I am still looking into it.


Is this for your existing plan only or for a new OC plan?
 
By OC do you mean Obamacare? I saw a poll recently that 40% of Americans think the Affordable Care Act and Obamacare were different things. Also, a significant proportion think Obamacare is an actual health care plan. So I want to clarify -  I am not talking about an "Obamacare" plan. I am talking about a health insurance plan that conforms to the laws of the ACA.

I currently have an individual plan that was of the 'old' type. You had to pass underwriting and would only be able to get on the plan if you didn't have pre-existing conditions, etc etc.
Under the ACA, plans are changing dramatically because they cannot decline people like that. So my options for a individual plan in 2014 are bronze, gold, etc... with a premium, deductible, and co-insurance.
Or, I can join my company group plan when they next have an open enrollment.

I can chose to continue my current plan until Nov 2014 at the current cost, but will have to switch at that point. I will probably do that.

 
lassoharp said:
Any Wisconsin or CA residents out there?


Also, I meant to distinguish between two scenarios:

1) What change in rates was for those who simply stayed on their existing plans

2) What changes in rates has anyone seen when getting quotes for a new OC plan.

I live in California. I picked a private plan the moment I was laid off 2 months ago... My rates since the ACA kicked in jumped up 33% since I first was enrolled in BCBS.
 
By OC do you mean Obamacare? I saw a poll recently that 40% of Americans think the Affordable Care Act and Obamacare were different things. Also, a significant proportion think Obamacare is an actual health care plan. So I want to clarify -  I am not talking about an "Obamacare" plan. I am talking about a health insurance plan that conforms to the laws of the ACA.


Yes, I was using OC/Obamacare and ACA interchangeably to refer to the new health care plans available under the "Obamacare" name/Affordable Health Care Act.

I am trying to get a feel for what is happening in different states given the differences in implementation at the state level.  NC is a wholly non compliant state and nobody seems to be seeing any of the promised reductions in plan costs.  I have a friend in Wisconsin who said he was quoted a tier 2 plan that was 320.00 per month cheaper than his existing non ACA/OC plan.  Interestingly WI is listed as one of the states not choosing to expand Medicaid, just like NC, which seems to be integral for getting the best results from ACA.
 
I haven't had health insurance for something like 10 years now. I am self insured. I doubt my self insurance is ACA compliant so I expect to pay a $95 fine.  I can not calculate the percentage increase from $95/$0 (I keep getting a DIV0 error).  :eek: I understand the fine will increase in the future so I will be able to calculate a cost increase for later years.  8)

I would advise caution about looking at just the nominal insurance plan rates. I hear that some companies have also increased the deductible amounts, so total out of pocket cost for heavy healthcare consumers may increase more than nominal top line policy amount. While there are some "preventative" medicines, like birth control now covered, so this will be a cost savings for heavy consumers of things like that. Consumers with chronic health issues should see cost decreases as their rates get averaged in with healthy consumers.

It is way too early to make a comprehensive assessment of actual consumer costs. Health providers have been raising rates as much and as fast as they could get away with for last several years in anticipation of this increase to their pay out cost from inability to selectively charge higher risk consumers proportionately more based on actuarial predictions of actual costs. 

I will avoid making more predictions, lets just see how this goes. But rates next year will reflect their actual experience under ACA.

JR

PS: I might be willing to pay a few hundred a year if they covered my membership dues at the "health" club (gym) where I play basketball, but I suspect they will want more than that a month for an old fart like me even on the dirt plan (lower than bronze).

PPS: Seriously. years ago when I dropped insurance coverage because I was paying thousands a year and consuming zero services, I looked into HSA, where you could pay in, and roll over funds you don't consume into the next year. And I looked for "actual" catastrophic insurance to cover the rare unexpected but expensive events. I couldn't find anything close to what I wanted. As I get older I am now in a peer group with aging baby boomers most on sundry chronic medications for cholesterol and pre-diabetic blood sugar conditions. Arghh
 
In IL.
I have Aetna offered by my employer.
Cost just went up about $100 more a month for me.
My deductible went from 0 to $1500.
 
Seriously. years ago when I dropped insurance coverage because I was paying thousands a year and consuming zero services, I looked into HSA, where you could pay in, and roll over funds you don't consume into the next year. And I looked for "actual" catastrophic insurance to cover the rare unexpected but expensive events. I couldn't find anything close to what I wanted. As I get older I am now in a peer group with aging baby boomers most on sundry chronic medications for cholesterol and pre-diabetic blood sugar conditions. Arghh


The HSA you mention seems ideal and the smart way to go for those in that position.  I would count myself in that boat and it's a shame no one was willing to offer a sensible plan like that.  At the very least the catastrophic plan plus even some mild kickback rewards for non consumption would have been an inviting deal.


It will be interesting to see how many subscribers will drop their coverage completely and deal with the fines.  I happen to fall well below the poverty line so am exempt from any penalties. 
 
As I've said before Obamacare is the true name not Affordable Care.  My rates go up and out of pocket max went up 3 times the previous plan.  Form 4K to 12K .  Its Insurance writers figuring the true cost with very little service provide  unless major problems hit you.  No fix at all for rising cost while my income goes down in this horrible job market.  We are on are own these days.  What companies use to provide is over.
 
PPS: Seriously. years ago when I dropped insurance coverage because I was paying thousands a year and consuming zero services, I looked into HSA, where you could pay in, and roll over funds you don't consume into the next year. And I looked for "actual" catastrophic insurance to cover the rare unexpected but expensive events. I couldn't find anything close to what I wanted. As I get older I am now in a peer group with aging baby boomers most on sundry chronic medications for cholesterol and pre-diabetic blood sugar conditions. Arghh

I am in the camp of paying thousands a year for insurance while having very low health costs. But someday I might and that's the point of insurance right?  To spread out the high cost of a few to a large group.
Health Insurance in the US has become health maintenance, which is very puzzling and disrupts the workings of the system. Having people pay for health maintenance out of pocket (routine office visits, birth control, etc), and have insurance kick in for major medical problems (cancer, etc.), would make a lot more sense, and help control costs because people would shop around instead of not caring about the cost since insurance picks up the tab.

I looked into a HSA last year and it did not let you roll over funds year to year. Maybe yours was different. In WI, basically you put money in and if you don't spend it, your employer keeps it. WTF? I wonder who lobbied that into the law - doesn't make any sense to me. HSA really seemed like some of the worst written legislation ever. Why not just say medical expenses can be itemized and deducted?

And if you look into the thought process that led to the ACA, you'll see that the mandate came about because of people making the calculation to drop their insurance when healthy. Once insurance companies can't deny coverage due to pre-existing conditions, then most people would realize they can drop health insurance until they get sick, and then sign up. I would have done it differently - I think the attempt at a market solution is going to be very problematic.

Sorry to go off topic.

At the very least the catastrophic plan plus even some mild kickback rewards for non consumption would have been an inviting deal.
The bronze plans have pretty high deductible and co-insurance, but the premiums are still high, IMO.

I happen to fall well below the poverty line so am exempt from any penalties.
If you live in a state that did not turn down the medicaid fund (WI did), you would be covered by that. Right now there is a gap in coverage for people below the poverty line, since the ACA planned to cover those people with the Medicaid expansion. But that was the part of the law SCOTUS threw out. And there is no way anything could be passed to fill that gap now with the House controlled by the Repubs.
 
If you live in a state that did not turn down the medicaid fund (WI did), you would be covered by that. Right now there is a gap in coverage for people below the poverty line, since the ACA planned to cover those people with the Medicaid expansion. But that was the part of the law SCOTUS threw out. And there is no way anything could be passed to fill that gap now with the House controlled by the Repubs.


NC most definitely turned down Medicaid expansion.  Right now I get healthcare through a Community Health Care Clinic which is limited to non emergency visits.  Sometimes they can get you covered on expensive tests like echocardiograms, PET/CAT scans and lab work if they feel its really needed. 
 
dmp said:
PPS: Seriously. years ago when I dropped insurance coverage because I was paying thousands a year and consuming zero services, I looked into HSA, where you could pay in, and roll over funds you don't consume into the next year. And I looked for "actual" catastrophic insurance to cover the rare unexpected but expensive events. I couldn't find anything close to what I wanted. As I get older I am now in a peer group with aging baby boomers most on sundry chronic medications for cholesterol and pre-diabetic blood sugar conditions. Arghh

I am in the camp of paying thousands a year for insurance while having very low health costs. But someday I might and that's the point of insurance right?  To spread out the high cost of a few to a large group.
Health Insurance in the US has become health maintenance, which is very puzzling and disrupts the workings of the system. Having people pay for health maintenance out of pocket (routine office visits, birth control, etc), and have insurance kick in for major medical problems (cancer, etc.), would make a lot more sense, and help control costs because people would shop around instead of not caring about the cost since insurance picks up the tab.
We agree... pure insurance is based on actuarial experience and grouping together individuals with similar risk and experience. Lloyds of london didn't pool ocean freight together with rail or other transportation modes because of different risk experience. I wouldn't mind being pooled with all full court fast break basketball players, who jog and lift. Instead I get pooled with sedentary, overweight baby boomers who eat way too much processed food.  :(
I looked into a HSA last year and it did not let you roll over funds year to year. Maybe yours was different. In WI, basically you put money in and if you don't spend it, your employer keeps it. WTF? I wonder who lobbied that into the law - doesn't make any sense to me. HSA really seemed like some of the worst written legislation ever. Why not just say medical expenses can be itemized and deducted?
Yup, like I said a good concept but imperfectly executed.

You already can itemize health deductions when large enough to be worthwhile, vs. standard deduction. I have never come close. This whole mess was kind of caused by the government allowing this (healthcare cost) to be deducted by large employers so they could give an effective "invisible" raise to just those large company workers. (1930s?).  Crony capitalism is not that new.

If everybody actually bought their own healthcare out of pocket, and bought catastrophic large event insurance as appropriate from a competitive insurance market things would be better. I buy insurance to protect against automobile accidents, I buy homeowner insurance to protect against catastrophic loss to my property. I should have some similar insurance for my temple (my body) but i am just severely disappointed in how healthcare is currently run, and where it is headed.

FWIW My car insurance broker called me up this week and offered me a 33% reduction to my car insurance bill. Since I'm driving a 17 YO car I dropped collision insurance long ago which was more than a 50% drop. 
And if you look into the thought process that led to the ACA, you'll see that the mandate came about because of people making the calculation to drop their insurance when healthy. Once insurance companies can't deny coverage due to pre-existing conditions, then most people would realize they can drop health insurance until they get sick, and then sign up. I would have done it differently - I think the attempt at a market solution is going to be very problematic.
I hate to use inflammatory terms like ponzi scheme but this is not only pooling sick with healthy consumers, but a generational wealth/cost transfer from young people who generally consume little health care to old farts like my neighbors who consume proportionately more. I am arguing against my own self interest here. 
Sorry to go off topic.

At the very least the catastrophic plan plus even some mild kickback rewards for non consumption would have been an inviting deal.
The bronze plans have pretty high deductible and co-insurance, but the premiums are still high, IMO.

I happen to fall well below the poverty line so am exempt from any penalties.
If you live in a state that did not turn down the medicaid fund (WI did), you would be covered by that. Right now there is a gap in coverage for people below the poverty line, since the ACA planned to cover those people with the Medicaid expansion. But that was the part of the law SCOTUS threw out. And there is no way anything could be passed to fill that gap now with the House controlled by the Repubs.
If we are talking about the same thing, SCOTUS made it optional rather than mandatory. I think Ohio just signed up. One small catch in this largess is that the federal funding for this is only legislated through 2016 at which time the states will have to pick up the full cost. Many states don't feel lucky enough expand an entitlement now without long term funding in place. What do the states tell voters in 2016? Sorry but that free sh__ is now going away..

JR
 
This thread is fascinating as a non- American.

Don't have anything else to say as it might be inflammatory to what is clearly a sore point :)
 

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