Stuff people say about mic capsules...

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Off topic but, from the Neumann TLM127 brochure:

" The wire mesh headgrille houses the large-diaphragm K 127 capsule. This capsule is DERIVED from the K 103 (of the TLM 103), which accounts for its outstanding impulse response. The TLM 127 is thus capable of reproducing all transient phenomena of music and speech without any coloration.
The sound character of the microphone is determined exclusively by the capsule; no electronic equalization is used."

Thus we can assume that it's not exactly the same capsule, even if i always find the 127 (in cardioid) very close to the 103 .
They claim that both are very fast with transients , and that's true.They also add that the TLM electronic is made to be transparent , innuendo, as opposed to the transformers series.

My humble experience tells me  that transformers introduce sound modifications on transients, phase , distortion , and frequency response.there a lot to say in that domain but it's too off topic.
It's easy to swap various Xformers , all other things equal , and listen to the differences.
When i mod or build a mic , i often try several transformers , depending on the capsule sound and electronic , and i always have audible differences .i can also match the transformer for desired usage (ex: larger cores for low end recordings)

my 2 cents

For the Chinese builded capsules , all i wanted to say is  that , if they want , they can .
they've attracted staffs from famous european and US firms and they have a low cost and meticulous hand resource.
On K67,K47 , they already have made decent capsules, i have some in stock at that time.Good investment for the price.
i wouldn't say Fiat but rather Mercedes VS Ferrari , but we're on the same wavelength...
On CK12, i've never found one.they approximate it with a edge terminated one, but we're far from the original or Tim's one.

 
The correct designation for the M7 follow up capsule is K49 (dual sided capsule).
K47 ist the single sided Version (cardiod only) used in the U47fet and M147.

Back to topic:
Vox-O-Rama has a microphone with the K49 made by MBHO and a capsule head with an MBHO K47:

M36 Microphone:
http://www.voxorama.com/mikrofone/detail/vox-o-rama-m36.html
This one is based on the MBHO MBNM 608 Microphone. It uses it's electronics together with their K49.
On the second picture you can see something typical for MBHO capsules: The outer ring is made out of brass not plastic.

K47s Capsule head:
http://www.voxorama.com/mikrofone/detail/vox-o-rama-k47s-ab-1-juli-lieferbar.html
Being a K47 this one is cardiod only...

I'll second Rossi's statment on Neumanns' capsule quality, engineering, their maufacturing and quality control.
To me a quality capsule can be easily detected when checking it's off-axis behaviour. In my experience there is no chinese maufacturer that rivals Neumann, Gefell, MBHO, Thiersch, DPA, Tim Campbell or Schoeps capsules on that matter. Although during my latest test in January it looks like the chinese are getting better on that topic...
 
i can see no connection between the fact that some people like that or this mic better , and that proves that transformers have a small impact on sound ..... ?????

I don't want to be their advocate , but chinese manufacturers can do, and have made, some very nice mics/capsules :  SE 4400a ,  RN17 and RNR1, Sputnik, Telefunken AK 47 MKII, CU29, AR51 early series , etc...
i will take a look at the SE RNT also...

They can do pure bu....it as well : the alctron, apex, and their clones ...

But European/US can also make bad sounding gear also : most of actual AKG and Shure LDC mics, for example .
Even some Neumanns are average but they still have a fistful of wonderful mics

The edge terminated chinese CK12 attempt (like this one: http://microphone-parts.com/collections/capsules/products/rk12-microphone-capsule) , sound way too artificial for me , i don't like the way it react to the human voice or acoustic instruments. i find it lifeless, there's some annoying resonances, and i noticed that they don't have a tight tolerance in a batch.
i definitely prefer their K67 clones like in the mics i've refered above , quite decent but i agree, of course not in the same league as Campbell, Thiersch, Neumann...but not the same price range...


 
it's CRAZY now  how, in this forum, you can't give peacefully your opinion without excessive/step by step answers...

ok, let's play...

Rossi, sorry but you say something and the opposite in the next line and even in the same phrase...
you're maybe a bit tired
please recheck what you wrote:

-"it is possible to make fine mics without a transformer": did i say the opposite ?

-"it's smaller than most people think" : who ?

-"I'm not entirely convinced of your argument": it was not the goal

-"I'm sure the Telefunkens would sound even better with a high quality capsule." : evident but  why are not working at telefunken ?

-"RNR1 is a ribbon mic": i said "mics/capsules"

-"I have little experience with Shure LDCs ": why talking about...

- "but current AKG C414 models are pretty good. Not necessarily top notch, but they're not that expensive, either, and certainly very good for the price. The AKG C414 XLS may not sound very exciting, but it is a very good around mic (I did a direct comparison to my old C414 EB P48)." :

come on ! good but not top ! good but not exiting ! etc...
sure that you won't be mixed up in a scandal ...

-"I'm not 100% sure that's the type I tested, but it looks similar" : sure or not sure ?

-"I also did measurements, and I can assure you that it does not suffer from weird resonances. In fact it is fairly linear" : sorry but bad resonances are not revealed by frequency response .

-"I only had a small selection, but the tolerances were pretty tight on those (capsule to capsule and front to back)" : this means that you've tested only one.

-"I have yet to find a Chinese capsule that sounds good period." : i thought that you found one ! : "I built some pretty decent mics around this capsule" .



PS: "The Sputnik for instance was a bit spitty" : just take a look : http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/article/2104-patrick-leonard-redefines-the-studio-standard-with-m-audio.html

 
Rossi said:
When I say pretty good, I mean good for the price. I have yet to find a Chinese capsule that sounds good period.
We'll have to wait until their decadent Western customers stop insisting they copy ancient, stupidly complex designs that are difficult to get consistent for peanuts.

Wanna know who thinks CK12 is too complicated?  A certain Bernhard Weingartner who used to design  mikes for a little Austrian firm in Jurassic times.

Wanna know who thinks Neumann centre terminated capsules are stupid?  The same little Austrian firm in da old days.

Alas, AKG have turned to the Dark Side in their latest designs  :eek:
 
There was an episode of Top Gear where they put the Golf GTI MkI through to MkIV or V against each other and raced them... Lo and behold, the carburettor MKI rustbucket killed all of them in top speed. There was simply nothing the Mk whatever with its 12 airbags, ESP, traction control, and 2.0l modern injection engine could do about it. And we all know how much more fun old cars are to drive...

All that to say, there's never a guarantee that new technology will perform or sound any better than what we already have.
 
yes i like old cars too !
for microphones, one of my best mic is a M367 Neumann and it's 55 years old !
However, there's some nice productions today , i really like DPA , MBHO SDC , Wunder Audio , Flea ....

PS: Rossi , not fair to delete ALL your posts ! never mind , i leave mine !

It reminds me someone else in this forum ....

Moderators should modify the site, to avoid old posts deleting ...

Why don't you assume your writings ?
 
granger.fredric,
Why do threads you participate in turn in to conflict? Please ask this of yourself.
Please don't argue with me, only take a few minutes to reflect on how you participate in threads.
Perhaps you can go forward with the goal in mind to participate in threads in a calmer way.
This forum is a great resource and generally has very civil and courteous discussions.
Thanks
Dan
 
Good point by dmp, sometimes we aren't aware of how we are perceived.  With that I'll add that Granger.Frederic has added a lot to discussion which otherwise might get swept under the carpet. 

No need for anyone to be hostile towards each other over opinions...  however without differing opinions we'd all have the same rack and microphone and be a bunch of boring lemmings making beep beep music in perfect time.
 
when you read to my previous posts , the tone was initially peaceful until someone transforms it into a more aggressive one.
the problem is that , now , with the deleted posts , you have only half of the discussion.
that kind of method has happened to me twice in this forum.

we shouldn't have the ability to delete older posts.

i have no problem with other opinions but when someone is trying to discredit me, i just cannot ignore.
i add that ,sometimes, useful informations finally emerge after that kind of fierce argument.

i hope you understand.
 
Just to clarify:
I pulled (most of) my contributions to this thread after the thread starter pulled his posts (even his capsule pictures disappeared) and changed the title of this thread. This thread has thus become useless.

I don’t usually edit my posts, except maybe for a spelling mistake. The fact that I did this time also had to do with the fact that another forum member (who also edited his posts, btw) felt offended. Not because of what I wrote but because, quite obviously, he never took the time to read my posts carefully.

This is something I’ve noticed more and more often recently, here and elsewhere: People quickly scan your post, misconstrue statements you never made, ask things you already explained, and get offended for no reason.

There are more things that bother me about this forum, lately, but I don’t want to get into that. Nobody’s listening, anyway.

In a nutshell:
I don’t want to share information with people who don’t appreciate it.

My impression is that an increasing number of longtime members feel that way. There are still a few good people left, but many of the members who made this forum a great community have disappeared.

End of story, I’m out.
 
No, not end of story , it's too easy !

What flagrant and contemptible bad faith!

you have deleted your posts because you induce a bad tone to the thread , and a lot of nonsenses.

i had read carefully your posts when they were present ,  but now you've deleted all , no one can corroborate my version.

Rossi , it's not honest and i have the feeling that you're trying to discredit me and making me look aggressive.

Oh, and  i've never deleted a post,  i sometimes edit ONLY for spelling or grammar mistakes !

this was just  to help the few people interested  form an independent view !
 
I think it's enough for people to look at this:

granger.frederic said:
it's CRAZY now  how, in this forum, you can't give peacefully your opinion without excessive/step by step answers...

ok, let's play...

Rossi, sorry but you say something and the opposite in the next line and even in the same phrase...
you're maybe a bit tired
please recheck what you wrote:

-"it is possible to make fine mics without a transformer": did i say the opposite ?

-"it's smaller than most people think" : who ?

-"I'm not entirely convinced of your argument": it was not the goal

-"I'm sure the Telefunkens would sound even better with a high quality capsule." : evident but  why are not working at telefunken ?

-"RNR1 is a ribbon mic": i said "mics/capsules"

-"I have little experience with Shure LDCs ": why talking about...

- "but current AKG C414 models are pretty good. Not necessarily top notch, but they're not that expensive, either, and certainly very good for the price. The AKG C414 XLS may not sound very exciting, but it is a very good around mic (I did a direct comparison to my old C414 EB P48)." :

come on ! good but not top ! good but not exiting ! etc...
sure that you won't be mixed up in a scandal ...

-"I'm not 100% sure that's the type I tested, but it looks similar" : sure or not sure ?

-"I also did measurements, and I can assure you that it does not suffer from weird resonances. In fact it is fairly linear" : sorry but bad resonances are not revealed by frequency response .

-"I only had a small selection, but the tolerances were pretty tight on those (capsule to capsule and front to back)" : this means that you've tested only one.

-"I have yet to find a Chinese capsule that sounds good period." : i thought that you found one ! : "I built some pretty decent mics around this capsule" .



PS: "The Sputnik for instance was a bit spitty" : just take a look : http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/article/2104-patrick-leonard-redefines-the-studio-standard-with-m-audio.html

When I say, for instance, I tested a small bunch of a certain capsule type and found them "fairly consistent (capsule to capsule, front to back)," you claim I tested only one. How could I possibly test capsule to capsule consistency if I had only one???

I can pick whether I find your statement illogical or aggressive, but neither makes me want to go on. And it's similar with other statements. When I say "decent "I mean "decent", i.e. "pretty good, more than okay," but not "super-duper-best-I-ever heard, yippie wow!"

Let's get this straight: I never insulted you, in fact, I don't think I ever insulted anybody on this forum in 1490 posts over 10+ years.  Right now, I'm not sure I'll ever make the 1500 mark. In any case, this is my final statement in this (useless) thread.
 
Not useless at all for me !

you don't have to copy/paste my previous message because : I DON'T HAVE DELETED IT .

Someone , reading it, could obviously think that I'm an aggressive person .
But i'm not.

If i was, why did you delete ALL your posts ?

My answer was in the same tone range of of  Rossi's previous one and now it looks out of context.
 
granger.frederic said:
Not useless at all for me !

you don't have to copy/paste my previous message because : I DON'T HAVE DELETED IT .

Someone , reading it, could obviously think that I'm an aggressive person .
But i'm not.

If i was, why did you delete ALL your posts ?

My answer was in the same tone range of of  Rossi's previous one and now it looks out of context.

Indeed you sound aggressive to me...  Please stop haranguing a respected member of the forum.

If you use the quote function, like I just did,  your posts would retain the context of what you are responding to. 

JR
 
Thanks i didn't know for the quote fonction , very usefull for that kind of situation ...

As you're a moderator , please ask Rossi , the respected member , why he has deleted all his posts ...

For what ?

i'm curious , aren't you ?
 
Dear frederic and all others,

sometimes people delete post here. This is very usefull in many cases.
I see it as intellectual property. Other people think different about this, thats fine. There are many options, who knows all this.
Sometimes I too get angry if people delete information thats usefull for me.
But I´m not the one to tell them what to share and what not.

I think this place is just awesome in so many ways. People from all over the world connect here in a very benificial way.
Of cause it can happen that others think, talk and behave very differently from what we think is right.
Thats just normal and the way it is.

so lets move on!

best greetings from Germany!
Stephan

PS: I recently even learned something about headache here  ;D
I realy love this forum!
 
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