The Detroit plane incident

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Yes.  Look at Palestine and Israel.  Israel has been bending over kissing their butts and meanwhile another arms shipment from Iran gets through.  They left Gaza and now it is a hell hole.  Clinton massaged and bribed Arafat for 7 years- the guy died a billionare! and things only got worse.
You assume that these fiends are the same as you.  They are not.  They would impale you on your olive branch; kill your dove and suffocate you with it's bloody carcass.  Any appeasement is seen as weakness and a chance to up-arm.
We are falling into the same traps over and over.  Look at N. Korea.  KJI needs some more heating oil and hard currency, so he is talking about a nukular free Korean peninsula.  I thought Jimmuh Cahtuh took care of that?  Another Nobel Prize for FAIL.
That FAIL bomber should have been on a plane to Gitmo to recite his life story.  Instead he is lawyered-up in the US.  We do this at our own peril, and that is exactly what the amateur hacks in power want.
Mike
 
Israel has been bending over kissing their butts

Between airstrikes.  The only reason Israel is even "trying" is that we have forced them to.

sodderboy said:
Yes.  Look at Palestine and Israel.  Israel has been bending over kissing their butts and meanwhile another arms shipment from Iran gets through.  They left Gaza and now it is a hell hole.  Clinton massaged and bribed Arafat for 7 years- the guy died a billionare! and things only got worse.
You assume that these fiends are the same as you.  They are not.  They would impale you on your olive branch; kill your dove and suffocate you with it's bloody carcass.  Any appeasement is seen as weakness and a chance to up-arm.
We are falling into the same traps over and over.  Look at N. Korea.  KJI needs some more heating oil and hard currency, so he is talking about a nukular free Korean peninsula.  I thought Jimmuh Cahtuh took care of that?  Another Nobel Prize for FAIL.
That FAIL bomber should have been on a plane to Gitmo to recite his life story.  Instead he is lawyered-up in the US.  We do this at our own peril, and that is exactly what the amateur hacks in power want.
Mike

And yes they are different than us.  They avenge deaths when we just deal with it.  Someone kills someone they love, they avenge.  When someone kills someone we love, they get away with it practically.  IF they get caught, it's 15 to life depending on how good their lawyer is and then they get 3 hots and a cot to live in for the remainder of their sentence.   Usually if they get out, they go back to what they know and kill, rob, rape until they get caught again. Even though it's more barbaric, somehow I think it's actually much more effective than our "civilized" way of slapping hands.



Anyway so SURE, lets just blow up the world and everyone who doesn't agree with us.  That's the only other option (oh wait, that sounds suspiciously like what those pesky terrorists are trying to do doesn't it?).

So talking nice doesn't work.  Got it.

So giving aid doesn't work.  Got it.

So occupying a country with force doesn't work.  Got it.  Three times we've got it..

So installing a false government doesn't work.  Got it.  

What else is there to do?  They don't want us there, they don't want our aid, our friendship, nothing.  So either we do nothing and let them stream in and blow us up, or we retaliate and/or preemptively strike and they still blow us up, or we try to be friends and we still get blown up.

Well screw that.  At least we tried to do it the nice way.  

If it were left to some of you guys we would have just nuked the other hemisphere until it was just a billion acres of glass and the rest of the world would still hate us, possibly even more, if that's possible.

Oh and before someone spouts the normal "America is the best" propaganda and how "we don't care what the rest of the world thinks" and other assorted nonsense that I sense being posted soon, you might have forgotten that without the trade from the rest of the world, this country is as good as dead.  A majority of our infrastructure is based on foreign trade regardless of how great we think we are.  If suddenly the world decides that we are the next Nazi party, then suddenly we'll be in a world of hurt.

Besides, when groups of clandestine fighters in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia (and so on), can hold the "world's greatest military" at arms length for years and years, you gotta start wondering how great we really are and how we'll do when we face a "real" military like the North Vietnamese or the DRPK..  Oh wait, those both ended badly too..  Well shit.

Guess it's time to fold up the tents guys, it's only costing lives and money now.

Unless those enlightened, although venomous few, like Walter, can let us know some of that special information that he must have.



Just remember, when England owned the colony of the Americas, the English didn't call the tea-partiers patriots, they were called terrorists.  The only difference is what side you are looking from.
 
Thanks Kit.

I was always taught to look at ALL sides of a fight before getting into it.  Usually once you do that, you no longer want to fight.

And that's what I see is a big problem in this country and the world.  Nobody wants to look at anything objectively.  They just want to step up and fight without even really understanding what they are fighting against, and more often than not, what they are fighting for.

The point is that we didn't really understand what we were getting into and now we've totally lost what we were fighting for too.

So where do we go from here?  I don't know.  It seems that many people think they know but when allowed to follow through, they end up doing the same things that get us in trouble over and over.

We need to sit down and rethink everything, not just knee-jerk react to everything.
 
I passed on the bait the first time, but once again this is more complicated, than a school yard or bar fight " tit for tat" revenge based logic.

The Palestinian people are unfortunate pawns in a war between Israel and several other nations in the region, who deny Israel's very right to exist. It is no accident that so many palestinians are penned up in sundry refugee camps, and not allowed to integrate into the other nations in the region. This is calculated to keep pressure on Gaza and the conflict alive.

If it wasn't for our overt military support for Israel, they might already be gone. The elephant in room about the Palestinian conflict is that it isn't really about the palestinians,,, it's about israel and the deep hatred directed at them. There is no simple answer for this (hows that for understatement?).  I have mentioned the long term baby bomb, demographic approach being taken by palestinians so they can overwhelm Israel in any combined democratic process. Perhaps a reason they don't really want to be a separate nation?.

This conflict is a surrogate for past fights lost, and deep animosity. About the only long term solution that I can imagine, is growing a few more democracies in the region who will share that common philosophical foundation with Israel. This will take decades, but the process has started.

I suspect the proximity of Iraq to Iran has to have more than a little to do with the rejection of the current government there by students and young adults. There is a lot of travel between Iran and holy sites in southern Iraq. It is impossible for such religious pilgrims to not notice the changes there.

It is relatively easy to push Israel into apparently barbaric behavior as their civilians are bombarded by regular rocket attacks, suicide bombers, and whatever. They show remarkable restraint IMO.  Like i said the Palestinians are mainly pawns, and victims of the regions darker motives, but many are willing players in this ugly dance.

JR

PS: And for those who have not bothered to pay attention to what goes on inside Israeli, they are a democracy, and have a vigorous internal argument between the fraction of the public who wants to displace palestinians with new Israeli settlements and those who don't. Then there is the regional tension over different religion's claims to the same or proximate high holy sites. Anyone who thinks this is simple, is not paying attention. 
 

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