Yes, Tab-Funkennwerk is in the US, their UTC type transformers should be very close to originals, adding two Cinemags types is cheap and quite revealing. You will also need output transformers, lots of people like suggested 2:1 Edcor.
Transformer ideas for Ian Thompson bell mic pre
- Thread starter Thegoldenlockedlamb
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That’s good to know since I am in the states also. I wonder if they will do any type of quantity discount ? Yes I would like to try some of
Dave’s stuff too. Yes Ian has told me he likes the edcor outputs , which model do you like ? And are they colored or a little more neutral? Any other manufacturers outputs you like also? I know the edcor are pretty affordable around $35 which is nice , but I wonder what some of the others go for?
The Carnhill transformers (VTB2291) sound great. I believe they use a similar winding scheme as the VTB1148 (1073 output tx), so they have a similar sound, colored in a slightly more musical way than the Edcors. I like them better. I think Ian might have used them as well. You can also try Cinemag, I’m sure they either have something suitable or can make you something suitable
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Thank you for the tip on the carnhills , I will check them out as the sound up my alley. Yes I’m sure cinemag could as well. Were the vtb 2291 fairly reasonably priced as well?
Thanks for your suggestion as help!
Gavin Pursinger
Well-known member
Hi goldenlockedlamb
Something that worked well for me...I got everything tracked and mixed into the computer
THEN went directly from the xlr of the computer to the in of my 1/2" 2tk...optimized everything and made 1 record pass to the analog deck...I suppose 1/4" @ 15 would also be good...the result went a long way towards your goal...plus this archived the project....I hit my 1/2"@30 pretty hard.which had a nice tape compression effect...definitely had an analog sound...1 pass only if you hit the tape hard...deck was setup for 6 db over 250 nw...maybe just 3 over for 1/4". Align the deck to print 10k at 2 or 3db hotter it will meld down after a few days....then load it back in your computer and proceed as normal from there...CHEAPER/EASIER THAN BUILDING A CONSOLE!!!
Something that worked well for me...I got everything tracked and mixed into the computer
THEN went directly from the xlr of the computer to the in of my 1/2" 2tk...optimized everything and made 1 record pass to the analog deck...I suppose 1/4" @ 15 would also be good...the result went a long way towards your goal...plus this archived the project....I hit my 1/2"@30 pretty hard.which had a nice tape compression effect...definitely had an analog sound...1 pass only if you hit the tape hard...deck was setup for 6 db over 250 nw...maybe just 3 over for 1/4". Align the deck to print 10k at 2 or 3db hotter it will meld down after a few days....then load it back in your computer and proceed as normal from there...CHEAPER/EASIER THAN BUILDING A CONSOLE!!!
I ordered some like 2 years ago and IIRC they were around 20 GBP or 25 USD each. It looks like now they're around 33 GBP or 42 USD each. Still relatively affordable, though unfortunately it seems materials and labor costs have been driving prices up everywhere
https://www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/Output_Transformers-p1.html
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Hey Gavin,
Thanks for the reply man! I’m glad to hear this method works like. I thought it would! I have already started the console build ( well Ian is building it for me and I’m building the preamps and eq ) , so I guess I’ll have a bit of both haha! I’m also using a radar which is a hard disk recorder which has a remote link a tape machine so the work flow is simple like it , the sound is nice too similar to tape somehow . So I’m hoping the console , radar and 2 track all will add up to the sound I’m after . Which deck are you using by the way? I know I said I would probably get the ampex 440, but honestly I’m open to other decks!
Thank you for a really helpful post my friend !
Best,
Ethan
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Oh wow they were extremely cheap then! But still not terrible at $42. I know carnhill owns oep and I’ve been talking to Chris at oep , I wonder if I could
Buy the carnhills direct from him ? I also asked him in my last message about building a utc style input transformer so hopefully I will hear back from him soon .
Yes prices on everything are crazy now days . I am noticing used audio gear is starting to finally go down. I have to assume the bad shape the economy is in and people needing money is finally catching up . So I suspect used things atleast will continue to drop .
Gavin Pursinger
Well-known member
I have an old radio station washing machine! Ampex ag440b. I bought a 1/2" Flux headstock from Sprague in LA the mounted and aligned them. It was a 7.5/15ips machine. A big Portland studio was leaving the scene and the owner Palmed me a little plastic case that held a CAPSTAN ADAPTER that slipped over the capstan and doubled my speed to 30ips
Masters at 30 from this held up in the A&M mastering suite. I couldn't get that adapter off at the point of a gun...after 25 yrs it's still on there !!@@@
God, if Ian is helping you, you're set baby !!!!
Scullys are fine fine machines
280 series, cards can be recapped and plug in 24volt relays are probably still around. The Studer Revox PR99 is more modern switching electronics
Scully 280 (not 280B) has utc xformers both mic & line...they make GREAT pres. The 440 B HAS PLUG IN INPUT XFORMERS so be positive those are on your washing machine...these are used and beat for $ 300. +/-...find one that is You
Masters at 30 from this held up in the A&M mastering suite. I couldn't get that adapter off at the point of a gun...after 25 yrs it's still on there !!@@@
God, if Ian is helping you, you're set baby !!!!
Scullys are fine fine machines
280 series, cards can be recapped and plug in 24volt relays are probably still around. The Studer Revox PR99 is more modern switching electronics
Scully 280 (not 280B) has utc xformers both mic & line...they make GREAT pres. The 440 B HAS PLUG IN INPUT XFORMERS so be positive those are on your washing machine...these are used and beat for $ 300. +/-...find one that is You
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Ah so you have the ampex style I was looking at too! That’s cool about the studio guy in Portland hooking you up with that capstan!
So these machine with the 30 ips capstan are what were used to master at A&M?
Yes Ian is great and a saint too when it comes to patience with all my stupid questions!
Yes I’ve always heard the scully have a nice color to them . I’ve always heard the pr99 and other revox and studer are kind of tranparentish.
Yes you really have to check for sure on those ampex machines, like I mentioned in a post earlier that I used to own an ampex 440b also.
Wow so you can still get a scully or ampex 2 track for $300? All the ones I keep seeing people went like a grand for them! I think I gave $500 for the 440b I used to own , but it was mint looking , had nice heads , and came with 10 rolls of tape . If I could find either of those for $300 I would gladly grab one!
Gavin Pursinger
Well-known member
The deck in Arnie Acosta's suite
was some custom fabricated unit it was 30 or 15ips and the tape path could be routed thru different playback heads. 1/4" or 1/2" or maybe even mono. The transport plate looked to be scully ? Playback electronics seemed to be in a mastering console where their volume and eq circuits were...setup seemed to have 2 sets of controls so the could alter stuff for the next song in analog real time on the fly....Allan Yoshida's suite had I set of electronics that dealt with each song as a stand alone and fed a magneto optical device for digital PCM
Storage and a computer...No telling what his electronics were...I was lucky they let me in the suite. Dan' suite seemed similar to Allan's...
These were BIG TIME CATS...i just kept my mouth to a minimum and tried to soak it all in..small minnow in a GOLD RECORD LAKE...ALL MONITORS WERE 15" COAXIAL TANOYS BIAMPED similar to Altec 604Gs. Custom acoustic design per individual engineers personal preferences and no room was very large...MY SOURCE WAS 1/2" 2TK@30ips No NR.....thx for the 30 yr old flashback...I needed that !@@!
was some custom fabricated unit it was 30 or 15ips and the tape path could be routed thru different playback heads. 1/4" or 1/2" or maybe even mono. The transport plate looked to be scully ? Playback electronics seemed to be in a mastering console where their volume and eq circuits were...setup seemed to have 2 sets of controls so the could alter stuff for the next song in analog real time on the fly....Allan Yoshida's suite had I set of electronics that dealt with each song as a stand alone and fed a magneto optical device for digital PCM
Storage and a computer...No telling what his electronics were...I was lucky they let me in the suite. Dan' suite seemed similar to Allan's...
These were BIG TIME CATS...i just kept my mouth to a minimum and tried to soak it all in..small minnow in a GOLD RECORD LAKE...ALL MONITORS WERE 15" COAXIAL TANOYS BIAMPED similar to Altec 604Gs. Custom acoustic design per individual engineers personal preferences and no room was very large...MY SOURCE WAS 1/2" 2TK@30ips No NR.....thx for the 30 yr old flashback...I needed that !@@!
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wow that’s Is so cool you got to visit those mastering suites! I would have been quiet too and trying to absorb all I could ! Out of curiousity how did you manage to get to see them ?
That’s interesting about the tannoies and matches something I heard Val garay mention in an interview once where he was talking about when they made the Linda rondstants record with “ you’re no good “ on it ( heart like a wheel maybe ?) . He said they went to the mastering guy and he played it on his system with those tannoys and before they brought it to him they Val and Peter Asher were all excited because of how big and nice the bottom end sounded , well on those tannoies , apparently they didn’t really pick up the bottom and they were disappointed. Well when it got down the mastering guy looks up at them and goes man listen to that huge amazing fucking bottom ! He was used to working on them and I guess knew how to hear the bottom and how it translated to those monitors. After that he said he went out and bought the same tannoies. Which I think he said was the super golf with mastering cross over . I wonder if he was using the same mastering guys you visited or if all mastering guys used a similar setup at that time ?
Man I appreciate you sharing this story with me ! I enjoy hearing this kind of stuff and how things worked backed then and what they monitored on and what their thought process was on mixing things back then and how they eq’s etc . Gregory Scott from kush audio made a good suggestion once about why a lot of the early 70s to about the late 70s /early 80s we’re softer sounding and the way the vocal set up . He mentioned them using the jbl 4xxx series , altec 604 , and tannoy being big player and how they were kind of bright and forward . So to them it sounded right recorded and mixed kind of soft since the speakers were more forward/brighter . Which makes sense . Anyways sorry to write a novel!
Gavin Pursinger
Well-known member
Thx. I went to A&M Mastering 1st time because 1. I bought their Scully 288 16 tk and the 1st project was an excellent 7 piece country band. 2. Nobody here really new how to get a CD prepped. The band wanted it right and bought the time.
2nd and 3rd time were also band paid-lucky me!--A&M was not cheap 375/hr--they printed plant master on a 1/2" video cartridge so the plant had to press in real time not high speed dub. After that cd was more common and 486 computer could do prep in a bedroom.
The 1630 and the master tapes of the country band and their promo pack were taken away by Acosta...we sat there for over an hour & thought 1. We were gonna miss our plane and 2. They might sign the band.
That did not happen though.
Tasting the big time for a few hours was inspirational and gave me some local street cred. Livin' the dream ,!!!
Thx
2nd and 3rd time were also band paid-lucky me!--A&M was not cheap 375/hr--they printed plant master on a 1/2" video cartridge so the plant had to press in real time not high speed dub. After that cd was more common and 486 computer could do prep in a bedroom.
The 1630 and the master tapes of the country band and their promo pack were taken away by Acosta...we sat there for over an hour & thought 1. We were gonna miss our plane and 2. They might sign the band.
That did not happen though.
Tasting the big time for a few hours was inspirational and gave me some local street cred. Livin' the dream ,!!!
Thx
I got one extra transformer when buying Cinemags for ~600eur.
Check input's pinout for other than CMMI10PCA Ian designed some of his boards for and likes them a lot, you could use wires but that requires more work with 12ch. CMMI10PCA should be similar to Jensen RE-115KE known for very good sound.
I think Edcor only offers two 2:1 models with the same core material (steel) for this application so don't expect much difference. Maybe go with proposed Edcor XSM 2.4K/600 because they are more immune to noise than Carnhill, cheaper, locally made, etc. Personally i like Cinemag CM-27101 outputs for single ended, sometimes very expensive but great sounding CM-9661 in se and pp circuits, CM-2820 is made stock 2:1 with 50Ni core like the other two.
12ch with eq's, routing, metalwork etc is a lot of work, pretty expensive too. If this was my project in the US i would go with transformers proposed by Ian and add different Cinemag models for no more than 2-3ch.
Gavin Pursinger
Well-known member
Damn...I just looked up 1/2" tape 2500' It is 149 dollars and 94 bux for 10.5 reel of 1/4" with reels...no just 1/4" pancakes
***##÷÷÷???
Better build your console dude...30 feet of tape for a fade out cymbal crash
***##÷÷÷???
Better build your console dude...30 feet of tape for a fade out cymbal crash
So I got in touch with my friend and client David Travers-Smith, who owns two SS-3's and still tracks and mixes with them. Here's an album that was done on them back in 2013. He's done more recent stuff, a lot, if you look him up on Discogs, but I listened to this one and I know that it's all SS-3.
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Yeah tape has gotten crazy expensive! I was thinking unless the client or friend wants it mastered analog I could just print to the tape machine and then record it into the computer . This way I could get more use out of the tape instead of just once . Do you ever do this ?Damn...I just looked up 1/2" tape 2500' It is 149 dollars and 94 bux for 10.5 reel of 1/4" with reels...no just 1/4" pancakes
***##÷÷÷???
Better build your console dude...30 feet of tape for a fade out cymbal crash
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Wow what a cool story! Out of curiosity , what were those scully 16 tracks going for back then ? I’m just curious if they were held in high regard or if people just thought of them as old junk like a lot of tube gear was at one point !
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Hey Ike , thanks for the link! Really nice sounding record . It sounds smooth on top but still really punchy and detailed . Very nice !
Gavin Pursinger
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We paid $ 5200 to A&M for the 288-16...it was well cared for and my brother new something about them...I liked to run it at 30ips when i(the clients) could
2" x 2500 3m 996 was $ 110 a roll...3-4 songs eventually you could not even get 2" tape for a while and I went into sound system biz
I'm back to recording due to my age...Scully 280 channels are awesome front-end for digital rig.
2" x 2500 3m 996 was $ 110 a roll...3-4 songs eventually you could not even get 2" tape for a while and I went into sound system biz
I'm back to recording due to my age...Scully 280 channels are awesome front-end for digital rig.
