Typical capacitor values for audio

[Whoops]

Wow... thanks @Whoops ! Legendary effort there... you might have saved me literally days of head scratching, possibly a week...(despite my comments of "enjoying learning", it's a huge help to start in the right place haha).

You can also get assortment kits from Banzai, check the link I posted in my reply to Brian,
theres capacitor kits, Diode Kits, led kits, resistor kits.

But before buying stuff,
send me a PM with your address details, I have many stock of parts, too much actually.
More than I will ever use in my whole life, so send me your address and I will send you a nice assortment of parts so you can start your stash.
Consider it a Christmas gift

 

[Brian Roth]

From Ebay I only bought those 1W kits.

For 1/4w and 1/2W I bought from Banzai,
check the resistors value packs they have in this page:

https://www.banzaimusic.com/Sets-Kits-Specials/

Cool....Any ideas for USA resistor kits? Shipping, etc from overseas, can get pricey!

FWIW, I am slowly retiring, so not necessarily in the market anymore. But other USA folks would be interested!

Bri

 

[PermO]

Typical capacitor question.

What would you use for opamp V+ and V- power rail decoupling ?
People have suggested 100nF 50V
When I look at COG (Farnell) they only come in pF range
Tantalums do come in 100nF but I have heard many people say "don't put tantalum on power rails"

So what type of capacitor would you suggest ?

I've been using small film caps but I've been told not to do that...


edit;

Ok I've found some COG NPO 0,1uF 100V
https://nl.farnell.com/kemet/c350c124j1g5ta/cap-0-12-f-100v-5-c0g-np0/dp/2678628?st=cog
3,60 euro a piece ? seriously ?

"Don't use film caps, they're too expensive..... whut ?"

 

[PermO]

Or how about this ?

https://nl.farnell.com/cornell-dubilier/cd42fd473fo3f/cap-0-047-f-500v-1/dp/1264908
Nice small capacitor, ONLY 69,- EURO A PIECE ? WTF ?

So what do you people buy ?

 

[Newmarket]

Typical capacitor question.

What would you use for opamp V+ and V- power rail decoupling ?
People have suggested 100nF 50V
When I look at COG (Farnell) they only come in pF range
Tantalums do come in 100nF but I have heard many people say "don't put tantalum on power rails"

So what type of capacitor would you suggest ?

I've been using small film caps but I've been told not to do that...


edit;

Ok I've found some COG NPO 0,1uF 100V
https://nl.farnell.com/kemet/c350c124j1g5ta/cap-0-12-f-100v-5-c0g-np0/dp/2678628?st=cog
3,60 euro a piece ? seriously ?

"Don't use film caps, they're too expensive..... whut ?"

100n Ceramic X7R 50V (higher does no harm) dielectric. Sorted.
Value seldom critical (100n is conveniently round number ) . 47n usually fine if that's the availability.
Film caps should be fine too.
I tend to avoid more "volume efficient" dielectrics - X5R Y5V etc - due to increasing temperature and (particularly) voltage coefficient effects - ie actual capacitance reduces with rising voltage. Although tbf X5R probably fine most cases.
COG becomes important only in signal path aiming for purest fidelity.

 

[jBam]

You can also get assortment kits from Banzai, check the link I posted in my reply to Brian,
theres capacitor kits, Diode Kits, led kits, resistor kits.

But before buying stuff,
send me a PM with your address details, I have many stock of parts, too much actually.
More than I will ever use in my whole life, so send me your address and I will send you a nice assortment of parts so you can start your stash.
Consider it a Christmas gift

Thanks for the offer!... PMd ya. I'll keep at this list too. I think I'm getting close to resistor / capacitor list now...

Those Banzai prices are crazy low. I'm stuck into the mouser cartscat the moment and don't hate having known repeatable brands/ orders. Are Bamzai going to always be like mystery brands? Or are e.g. diodes going to be vishay etc?

In honesty, I'm not sure how much my list will cost on mouser (or digikey... or others). If it hits too high, I'll certainly be thinking of other options.

 

[PermO]

@Newmarket, Thanks for this !

I noticed X7R comes a whole lot cheaper compared to COG NPO.

I was planning to buy a bunch for all my future opamp projects.

 

[Whoops]

Are Bamzai going to always be like mystery brands? Or are e.g. diodes going to be vishay etc?

Those Banzai kits will be a generic brand.
For resistors and diodes I never really care about a brand
For ceramic C0G I also don’t care as long as they’re C0G

For film capacitors for general use and general repairs I also use whatever I have in the drawer. I’m just more picky for film capacitors if I’m doing a more “boutique” project like a tube amp or an LA2A.
If I’m doing a guitar pedal I don’t care the brand for fim capacitors.
But when I order for a project I buy normally Panasonic or Wima, Phillips/Vishay.
Anyway a generic kit is nice so that you have a nice stock of different values at hand for any eventuality.

For Electrolytic capacitors I really, really care about the brand, as this is the most common component to fail in electronics. So I don’t buy shit, I only buy Panasonic Electrolytic capacitors rated at 105 for the last 16 years and never had any of those fail.
Exception is tube amps where the value is higher than what Panasonic offers, so then I have to buy another brand, but I always buy a good solid brand.

 

[Script]

I never bought a basic stock of anything, except my very first full set of most common resistor values of 20 each. After all those years, I still have some of those original resistors (like 560k or so).

Instead, with every project I just round the number of needed components up to a meaningful breakpoint (unless I already have the needed components from a previous project). This has naturally contributed to building up the stock over time.

I think this is more feasible for DIY people than investing big time up front into stuff that one hardly ever needs -- for big workshops with high component turnover it's a different story.

Another side effect of constantly but purposefully running short on several components at the same time and then having to (re-)order is that I can easily reach "free shipping" with any new project that I take on.

Sometimes a project has to wait till I have a "free shipping" order together. Meanwhile I simply work on another projects -- or do something entirely different.

 

[fallout]

Cool....Any ideas for USA resistor kits? Shipping, etc from overseas, can get pricey!

FWIW, I am slowly retiring, so not necessarily in the market anymore. But other USA folks would be interested!

Bri

Not 'kits' per se, but you can make your own resistor kit from Tayda Electronics. I bought a ton of metal film resistors from them and haven't had any quality issues whatsoever. Cheap prices and cheap shipping. I bought ceramic caps from them as well without any issues. They all seem to be holding up well.

 

[PermO]

I agree I would not spend too much on having stock, resistors are always needed and I got my 1/4W E series 10 of each for 5,- euro at a surplus store.
I would not spend 75,- on a 100pcs each kit as most of it you will never use.

I would really start with picking a project, what do you want to build ?
Does it require a diy powersupply ?

The real fun starts when you want to rack it up, get a case, knobs, rotary switches VU's, transformers... oh boy

If the goal is to experiment on a breadboard with a bench PSU and a scope you won't need much quantity, but a rather large variety of values and bits to experiment with.

 

[JohnRoberts]

An observation, circuit designs that involve filter poles can be tuned by either changing the C or the R. Rs are cheaper so I standardized on fewer C values and more R values.

[edit- another observation... it is possible to find components too cheap to work. Bad 1/4W resistors are rare but I have encountered one or two in repairs of cheap equipment. Buying components in bulk will be cheaper but be careful about offers that seem too good to be true. Especially when designing new circuits you don't like having to second guess the components. /edit]

JR

PS: I still have thousands of 40-50 year old ROHM 1/4W carbon film resistors, that are still good. I have hundreds of mylar (polyester) film caps that are still good. Several values of Polystyrene that are still good, or as good as they were when new. I have discarded most of my old aluminum electrolytic capacitors from back then.

 

[Script]

Tayda Electronics -- Bought a bunch of 2W resistors from them for a project. Couldn't tell a difference -- except favourable price, despite shipping.

As for other stuff like standoffs, screw terminals, 10W resistors, IC sockets gold, shrink tube, wires, solder paste etc etc, etc I turn to AliXpress. No import tax to where I live.

 

[jBam]

@JohnRoberts ... quotes not working well on my phone. But yeah... interesting point. I've naively been target too low resistor values I think (as said a while back, I've worked mainly on dynamics designs... but keen to be working through filtering / eqs etc too). When I'm looking at 47uf caps (for eq / filtering?) I'm hitting some big bucks for film polypropylene...

Can you or someone give me a feel of the span of values for an eq unit / filtering unit... say full range 20hz to 20 kHz?

I think I'm realising >10kOhm is going to be common in terms of impedance... or am I confused again lol.


Whole reason I was expecting lower capacitance is an expectation that lower resistor values = lower noise... but I'm getting the feeling that 10k+ ohm is common in eqs (yeah?).

Thanks for any guidance...

 

[PermO]

47uF film, lol, that's going to be huge, and expensive.
Not something I would buy to have sitting around.

Take a look at bipolar electrolitics, Nichicon muse for example, I've used those in audio circuits, and I was not offended.

1K, 10K, 100K are the resistor values I have to keep orderdering the most.

At the moment I'm working with EasyEda to convert a high impedance instrument amplifier that I put on prefboard to a printed circuit, yesterday I discovered that the IC's I was using now only come in a SOIC package, so I decided to use those versions and have the PCB factory solder them on, then I was thinking, why am I drilling holes to mount trough hole resistors ? and I went SMD for all components... Now my hobby of "making things" has turned into "staring at a screen all day" pffff... But with modern electronics there's no other way I guess.

I started with tube stuff, point to point, no circuit boards, it's all big and bulky, no problem.
Then I went the IC route, point to point wiring DIP8 sockets can be done just as well.

But I'm refusing to point to point wire SMT, that's the limit !

So with my opamp circuits I probably only use my soldering iron for the hardware... So if you go the PCB route having stock will make no sense as you can pick and place everything you need in the software.

Maybe your first project should be a "audio grade" PSU +18V -18V / 5V /12V to power your experiments without introducing ripple and noise to the circuit.

Avoid the cheapest Chinese switching bench PSU's those do not provide clean power !

 

[jBam]

But I'm refusing to point to point wire SMT, that's the limit !

... fair call.

Also good call on 47uf being huge... or at least... I've been wondering g how big these thing are... seems that's well past the limit of practical (both $ and size)...

 

[Newmarket]

At the moment I'm working with EasyEda to convert a high impedance instrument amplifier that I put on prefboard to a printed circuit, yesterday I discovered that the IC's I was using now only come in a SOIC package, so I decided to use those versions and have the PCB factory solder them on, then I was thinking, why am I drilling holes to mount trough hole resistors ? and I went SMD for all components... Now my hobby of "making things" has turned into "staring at a screen all day" pffff... But with modern electronics there's no other way I guess.

I started with tube stuff, point to point, no circuit boards, it's all big and bulky, no problem.
Then I went the IC route, point to point wiring DIP8 sockets can be done just as well.

But I'm refusing to point to point wire SMT, that's the limit !

So with my opamp circuits I probably only use my soldering iron for the hardware... So if you go the PCB route having stock will make no sense as you can pick and place everything you need in the software.

OTOH it's quite feasible to hand assemble smt parts on a pcb with decent magnification as needed (I used to not need it for SOIC / 0805 but def do now ) and task lighting. SOIC and down to 0603 ime. Also done finer (whatever pitch THAT use for their SMT Outsmarts devices) although trickier but you get handy with the solder wick ! Alternatively go with solder paste (dabbed on with cocktail stick if not spending on stencil screens) and heat gun. But be aware that the paste has a rather short shelf life so avoid big tubs,

 

[Whoops]

I know SMT/SMD is here to stay, and I know it’s the present and the future, but I don’t do and will not do any DIY project in SMT.
I do this as an hobby, so it needs to be fun, and I have fun building and repairing through hole and have no fun at all with SMT.
Most SMT stuff is not even made to be repairable, well it can be repaired as anything, even if it’s hard, but it’s not really made for that, I hate SMT/SMD.

Another thing that I feel, this is not based in technical measurements or tests, but because SMD components are so small and look so crappy they always give me a sensation they sound bad for audio and that sound worst than through hole, so the perception they give is that they’re crap in terms of audio quality, that’s a psychological thing.
As we listen with our brain and not with our ears, this psychological perception affects my brain judgement on the sound of SMD stuff, so for me personally, SMD sounds worse than normal sized through hole components.

Maybe my perception will change in the future. But something has to be lost in reducing the size so much…

 

[PermO]

Oh, I'm with you all the way on that !

I'm not shure weather trough hole sounds better compared to SMD, but Im with you on the sentiment.
Also the shapes and colors, smell and feel of trough hole components, now everything is an indistinguishable black dot.
But to my opinion the recent class of (budget) converters sound great, big improvement in sound quality compared to the older generation of yesteryear.

I love the sound of well designed tube circuits and well made transformers, carbon resistors and big polycarbonate film caps, so I'll just keep doing that.

The frustration started this week as I was designing a trough hole circuit board for my DI style battery preamp, so I went to Farnell to get some components for 5 pieces and no, can't have that no more, can't have opa no more, there's still some out there but that would only give me a couple of pieces and double shipping costs, long waiting times and the design would not be future proof.

Just a waste of time, forget about it, closed all my tabs and went for a walk.

But I still wanted to learn the software, and the SOIC versions are available at the PCB manufacturer at a good price, so F it ! ...I'm going smd, I want to be able to build some of these preamps for musician friends.

So now I have this...

 

[JohnRoberts]

@JohnRoberts ... quotes not working well on my phone. But yeah... interesting point. I've naively been target too low resistor values I think (as said a while back, I've worked mainly on dynamics designs... but keen to be working through filtering / eqs etc too). When I'm looking at 47uf caps (for eq / filtering?) I'm hitting some big bucks for film polypropylene...

Can you or someone give me a feel of the span of values for an eq unit / filtering unit... say full range 20hz to 20 kHz?

I think I'm realising >10kOhm is going to be common in terms of impedance... or am I confused again lol.


Whole reason I was expecting lower capacitance is an expectation that lower resistor values = lower noise... but I'm getting the feeling that 10k+ ohm is common in eqs (yeah?).

Thanks for any guidance...

I commonly used mylar (polyester) caps in general purpose audio paths. Values I used were like 0.47uF, 0.1uF, 0.001uF. For smaller values I used polystyrene.

JR