No transformer expert here, but i wouldn't say that, and i'm sure it will depend on all the other aspects of the transformer.Greetings to all.
If a toroidal output transformer is used in a tube microphone, can this degrade the sound compared to a conventional transformer?
That is basically correct, although I don't believe that this was the sole reason. If, for example, Neumann wants a toroidal transformer, Haufe will certainly build one. They can do it, they have equipped the entire broadcast amplifier technology with toroidal transformers from a certain point in time.You need much more complicated machinery to wind toroidal transformers, than just a wire around an axial bobbin, so there's that too...
Money always plays a role, but the products mentioned are not intended for the mass market. This weakens the argument somewhat, and the past also shows that costs have not always been a priority. Take a look at some old designs from German broadcast equipment, they use expensive transformers and chokes as if they were growing on trees. This could certainly have been produced more cost-efficiently, but the old guys intentionally took a different path.Remember, profit's gotta come from SOMEwhere
I think that's a good point. You can see this clearly in the broadcast amplifier technology mentioned above. Around the same time period, toroidal transformers became very popular and gradually replaced conventional winding technology. (at least in german broadcast equipment)I think toroidals were only widely used in pro audio since the 80s or late 70s.
Perhaps microphone designers are just a little more conservative than the rest of the electronics world.
Maybe, who knows? Or maybe it's the required size of the transformer. In my memory, toroidal transformers are actually smaller than conventional transformers for the same power. Perhaps this effect is reversed with relatively small signal transformers, so that the EI design can be realised more compactly? Which would certainly be a plus in a microphone.(...or, as mentioned above, are smaller toroidal cores generally more difficult to produce?)Well, EI-core transformers are also easier to mount, perhaps? No danger to the windings if you crimp some "frame" around the core, with mounting ears. Not so much with toroidals, but i could be wrong.
With regard to the original question of whether toroidal transformers are inferior to conventional transformers in terms of sound, I would say that this is not the case. This came up in the WWW at some point in the context of the Telefunken V672 units, which were originally realised with square transformers and then equipped with toroidal transformers. Allegedly, the toroidal versions had a worse sound, but the fact that the circuitry (and the components) was also changed was not taken into account.If a toroidal output transformer is used in a tube microphone, can this degrade the sound compared to a conventional transformer?
Toroids have very good magnetic coupling, i.e. can be made with surprisingly low leakage inductance. And for non-gapped use, its A(l)-value gets quite high because of magnetic circuit efficiency.
The upcoming microphone "Astrud", which is a collaboration between us and Campbell Transmitter (a commercial product), will have a toroid output transformer - so far I haven't found anything even close to these in traditional EI-core designs..
/Jakob E.
But if output toroidal transformers are so good, then why don’t top microphone manufacturers still use them, maybe they don’t know about it yet..?
Perhaps in the updated versions of 67-87-251-800, they will still understand this and finally start using them..
I didn't mean ribbon microphones.First, they use them quite a bit in ribbon mics, where the efficiency of the core is of utmost importance--Coles, Oktava, our Samar ribbons.
This may be an expensive and innovative microphone, but these advantages can only be shown by the popularity, sales and demand for this microphone.We also made toroidal transformers for expensive Pegasus mic from Ronin--the one Celine Dione really liked. But it is quite a bit more expensive to make the torroidals, so the price raises accordingly--that might be the main consideration.
I completely agree with you, this is a system.As I mentioned in the message above--the microphone is a system. It is like to take a beautiful woman and then to try to 'improve' her and add a nose from another beautiful woman. Would it fit? Maybe yes, maybe no, however, it is not the original beautiful woman, anymore. Besides, again--99.9% so called clones are not about quality, but budget... with very rare exceptions. Why to care if ignorant people still buy them, anyway?
It’s just that now they sell a lot of “clones” of “classic microphones” that have a toroidal output transformer installed.
At the same time, it is argued that these are technically advanced transformers that are as good as, if not better than, the original ones.
This violates this system and misleads buyers of “clones”.
It’s just that now they sell a lot of “clones” of “classic microphones” that have a toroidal output transformer installed.
At the same time, it is argued that these are technically advanced transformers that are as good as, if not better than, the original ones.
This violates this system and misleads buyers of “clones”.
This violates this system and misleads buyers of “clones”.... Yeah, and..?
I agree again.It is not about topology, but implementation. It is possible to make a good transformer even on EI core. Also, it is possible to make a crappy toroidal. Devil is in details—core, its type, its material, stacking, size, winding technique, correct parameters calculation, optimization, and so forth—all of that affects the final result. All those things equal—torroidal transformer will be superior (of course, if made as a part of the system). Not to mention 99.9% of so called ‘clones’ have nothing in common with originals, so they can say whatever they want.
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