API vs Neve Sans Transformer

I am looking to install a main one or two channel mic pre for my DAW that is discrete solid state. I've been mixing for a year now to 1/2" tape from tracks recorded with a lot of tube gear (Altec, m610, Ampex, Peavey) to DAW and I find it's getting soft by the end product. It's inspired me to change my front end to a more present sound with solid state.

API has come to the top reading about it's characteristics (fast and warm) and I wouldn't bother building one, just buy. Millennia too, with transformers as a DIY. Their hv3d are just too tight as a main pre, I've demoed. However, I do have some Neve BA283av cards that I could use.

http://www.bobbymcalister.com/eBay%20Photos/ba283av/ba283av.html

However, I spent two years in a studio with 12 actual 1073's tracking to 2" and I'm only so-so on installing stock Neve's for my application here. They are great but I do pretty big productions with a lot of tracks and I'm thinking I want a tighter sound for the main pre. I did try once a homemade 1272 with Jensen's in and out and I quite liked it.

Do you think I should bother with newer, cleaner transformers in the Neve circuit or is a Millennia or API opamp just that much more what I'm looking for?

Thanks,
Bob

If you want sweet tone with more modern clarity and punch, less of a veiled sound, I recommend you build the Neve's with Lundahl 1538's on inputs (wired 1:2.5) and Sowter 8751's (or 9160's if you want to fit them neatly into 1ru) on the outputs.

I believe there is a product by a company called rtz audio that is essentially this. I do think it's the proper three-stage design, instead of a two-stage 1272-type pre, but these are the transformers they're using, I'm pretty sure, and I've heard that it is a nice clear, punchy update of the classic Neve sound.

If one main pre is all you want and you already have some 283's, then just build one of these, and if you feel like you really want something different you haven't lost much. It'll be great to have around for the stuff you dig it on.

Peace,

JC

:grin:

rascalseven,

Nice tip about the 3055. I'm looking online but I can't seem to find ON semi 2N3055's for sale to individuals. Any tips? Would this part be available in most major cities locally?

As for the Lundahl, I opened an ISA110 the other day (which I love) and saw the 1538 sitting in that one so I've figured since then it's modern and big sounding. Except for being slightly thin sounding front to back I love the spectrum of the ISA110's.

I have no experience with the Sowter's. Except I think I heard the Great River had a Sowter Output and I quite liked that unit. Why Sowter's over Lundahl outputs or Jensen?

Thanks,
Bob

[quote author="wilcofan"]rascalseven,

I'm looking online but I can't seem to find ON semi 2N3055's for sale to individuals...
Thanks,
Bob[/quote]

If in the US. Newark.com has them http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/newark/en_US/support/catalog/productDetail.jsp?id=09F5475

Steven

Thanks Vetsen.

Hi, Bob,

I suggest the Sowter primarily because they tend to be readily available, reasonably priced, and they are essentially Brian Sowter's clone of an LO1166 which Neve originally used. This is a gapped transformer of 1:1.5-ish ratio... not one you're likely to find in other manufacturer's standard catalogs.

You could, of course, get the Carnhill version as used by Vintech, etc., but these are probably closer to the older sound of the original Marinairs, and you had stated that you wanted something more modern.

Another option is to find a T1310 inductor (used in lots of old Neve aux modules) and substitue it for the LO1166 and then take the actual audio out from pin F of the 283 with a standard 1:1 transformer (like the api 2503 if you got in on those, or a Jensen or Reichenbach 123. I went this route in my dual Pultec clone with Neve outputs, and it sounds absolutely wonderful... rich and clear and musical with a touch less of the bulkiness that is common to the older Neve gear. If you do this, however, be sure to increase C7 on the 283 from the 80uF (or 100uF depending on the schematic you're looking at) to at least 220uF to maintain the LF response of the circuit.

Peace,

JC

Great tips JC. Anyone want to buy one Marinaire LO1166? ;-)

I'd get one of Fred Forssell?s 992s or a John Hardy 990 and use a LL1538 on the input. For the output I?d either use a Jensen (forgot the model #, but it?s expensive) or the balanced circuit on Fred? site.

BTW, there?s a group buy for some used 992s at ½ price going on next door at the Black Market forum right now ? don?t know if any are still available, though.

I have no idea what you mean by the advice to use either 992 or 990 opamp. Do they work with this circuit easily?

I believe he is addressing the API part of your original question. The API 2520 discrete opamp, which is the main component of the 312 circuit, is pin-compatible with Fred's 992 and the Jensen/Hardy 990. You can use these to build 312-type circuits.

I'd be interested to know what these circuits sound like (though I've been fortunate enough to use John Hardy's preamps before, so that give me at least a little bit of an idea (maybe??), though it is a different circuit than the 312). Both of these, and especially Fred's 992, will be 'cleaner' than the 2520, so the sound would definitely be a bit more modern. I personally like some of the tone of the older type designs versus the accuracy of newer designs, but beauty is definitely in the ear of the beholder. I'm sure either of these would make a wonderful 312-based mic preamp with the above mentioned transformers. If you wait much longer you will likely have many people here in the group chiming in on their 312 clones made with these components.

I personally like the Neve circuits a little better (just feels a little more solid somehow), and the use of the cleaner transformers definitely modernizes the sound a bit for more broadly-applicable use. Also, since you already have the 283 and an LO1166 to sell for money to buy the other transformers (I'm PM'ing you about that LO1166..... I'd like to get it if you really do want to sell it), it wouldn't cost much at all to build one and try it.

Peace,

JC

[quote author="wilcofan"]I have no idea what you mean by the advice to use either 992 or 990 opamp. Do they work with this circuit easily?[/quote]They should. Just get the 990C version of the 990. I think the 992 works with any voltage between +/-12 to +/-24V. Here's the sites:

http://www.johnhardyco.com/

http://www.forsselltech.com/index.html

JC,

Does that power supply you were speaking of run an API module as well? Are they compatible?