Chameleon Labs 7720 Stereo Compressor vs GSSL Clone?

Shop deals on ebay
shop deals on amazon
Advertise with us
GroupDIY Audio Forum

Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
R

rajprods

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
66
Location
United States - Near the Nation's Capitol
Has anyone compared the two?  If so, what did you think?  Are they basically the same or are they different?  If different, in what way?  Sound or performance?

Also, did the clone have That Corp VCA's or by chance have the DBX 202C VCA's?  Just wondering if using the old DBX VCA's would make the unit sound any different and/or better than the Chameleon.  The reason I'm asking is because I just got a Chameleon Labs 7720 to test out, and I haven't heard a GSSL clone.  I have the DBX 202C VCA's if I have a clone built, but wondering if it would really make that much of a difference.  If it's a big difference, I definitely would like to know.  Any thought or opinions would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.
 
Shoot some (preferably detailed) pics of the inside. Ask supplier for a schematic/service manual..

Post it here, and we'll take it from there.

Jakob E.
 
gyraf said:
Shoot some (preferably detailed) pics of the inside. Ask supplier for a schematic/service manual..

Post it here, and we'll take it from there.

Jakob E.
Click to expand...

I know for a fact the manufacturer has read threads on this site.  So, I can't take any chances with opening up the unit, taking pics, and posting them.  I just bought the unit 2 days ago, so it's under warranty which I don't want to void, nor do I want to take a chance on not being able to return the unit to the music store for a refund if it doesn't work out.  Sometime ago, a user on gearslutz.com posted a pic of the inside, but I don't think it's close enough to see the components.  I was hoping someone here would have tested a stock unit and compared it to their GSSL since I don't have one to compare it to. 
 
So the manufacturer came here to get info on how to clone a clone, and you are afraid to post a picture of the inside of their unit here?  This place has been getting pretty retarded lately.  I think we all need a good lecture on business ethics.

Unless there is a self destructing sticker between the lid and the chassis, I wouldn't think twice about opening it up and taking a photo for us.

As another thought, I don't think you will get valuable feedback from someone comparing the two from personal experience.  You need to find someone with a "GOOD" GSSL build, who has also used the Chameleon on the SAME source material.  I've built three different GSSL's with different parts (caps, VCA's).  At first, they didn't work correctly (wrong ratios due to VCA substitutions).  When I fixed that problem, they sounded OK, but not great.  Then I did the turbo mod, and I like them much better, but they still don't get used as much as my other compressors (even for 2 buss applications).  That being said, my friend who now owns one of my builds loves it and prefers it to his Alan Smart C2.  They all have subtle character differences due to the different parts used.  If I had a Chameleon for the last 4 years as a reference, I would have given you different answers as a function of time, and now as a function of the particular unit.   IMHO, you will not get a valid answer to your question, even neglecting personal tastes and perceptions (unit A is "fatter" than unit B..... what the hell does "fatter" mean to me....)

-Chris
 
Emperor Tomato Ketchup said:
So the manufacturer came here to get info on how to clone a clone, and you are afraid to post a picture of the inside of their unit here?  This place has been getting pretty retarded lately.  I think we all need a good lecture on business ethics.

Unless there is a self destructing sticker between the lid and the chassis, I wouldn't think twice about opening it up and taking a photo for us.

As another thought, I don't think you will get valuable feedback from someone comparing the two from personal experience.  You need to find someone with a "GOOD" GSSL build, who has also used the Chameleon on the SAME source material.  I've built three different GSSL's with different parts (caps, VCA's).  At first, they didn't work correctly (wrong ratios due to VCA substitutions).  When I fixed that problem, they sounded OK, but not great.  Then I did the turbo mod, and I like them much better, but they still don't get used as much as my other compressors (even for 2 buss applications).  That being said, my friend who now owns one of my builds loves it and prefers it to his Alan Smart C2.  They all have subtle character differences due to the different parts used.  If I had a Chameleon for the last 4 years as a reference, I would have given you different answers as a function of time, and now as a function of the particular unit.   IMHO, you will not get a valid answer to your question, even neglecting personal tastes and perceptions (unit A is "fatter" than unit B..... what the hell does "fatter" mean to me....)

-Chris
Click to expand...

Did I say the manufacturer came here to get info on how to "clone a clone"?   That doesn't make sense.... and I don't think it's appropriate using the word "retarded" regarding my post..... I'm referring to a unit that is already in production.   I said that I know for a fact that they have read threads on this site (I've talked to them about VCA's and possible upgrades, so they are well aware people have tried to figure out if their unit can be modified.... this is not a secret).

My username is pretty obvious with my email address, so unless you want to pay me as a result of voiding the warranty and/or for not being able to return the unit for a full refund if I choose to do so, I'm not opening up anything.  If someone has one that's beyond the warranty and/return period, that's on them if they want to open it up and posts pics.   
 
if you are comparing the two  , then you know
it's not exactly an original design , [ cloning the clone ]
if it's worth the money for you , then , eventually you can have two .

the pico comp seems to have nothing bad said about it ,
and the RNC 's are still a good all around comp .
Don't let this get in the way of making music
 
Looks to be a 797 Audio build.

The only thing I'd turn my nose up at from what I can see is the non-NPO/COG ceramics. Who knows what brand the chips are.
 
rajprods said:
My username is pretty obvious with my email address, so unless you want to pay me as a result of voiding the warranty and/or for not being able to return the unit for a full refund if I choose to do so, I'm not opening up anything.  If someone has one that's beyond the warranty and/return period, that's on them if they want to open it up and posts pics.   
Click to expand...

I've never heard of a policy that would void your warranty by opening up a piece of gear, pretty funny. If that were in fact the case (which I doubt) I wouldn't buy that piece equipment.

Mark
 
Rajprods, the retarded comment was in reference to another thread and another member.  I probably shouldn't have cross pollinated and didn't mean any disrespect to you.  I inferred from your comment regarding the Chameleon representative viewing GSSL threads that the representative had used information from this board to develop the 7720.  And as such, I was lumping that representative in with the loose ethics and sliding standards discussed in the other thread.  Perhaps that was an improper leap on my part, but it would not be the first time something like that had happened here.  Regarding opening the case and photographing the insides, I was saying what Biasrocks said, that unless there was a sticker saying "opening this voids your warranty" like they have on hard-drives, I wouldn't worry about jeopardizing my warranty if I were in your position.

Also, I was sincerely trying to be helpful in making a point that it will be almost impossible to answer your question given the circumstances, that it is hard enough to get useful advice on the internet comparing two commercially manufactured products that are consistent from unit to unit.

I'll add to Rodabod's observations:  We also can't see what the electrolytics are, and at least in the GSSL, they are in the signal path and do slightly effect the unit's character.

-Chris
 
rajprods said:
Has anyone compared the two?  If so, what did you think?   Are they basically the same or are they different?  If different, in what way?  Sound or performance?

Also, did the clone have That Corp VCA's or by chance have the DBX 202C VCA's?   Just wondering if using the old DBX VCA's would make the unit sound any different and/or better than the Chameleon.   The reason I'm asking is because I just got a Chameleon Labs 7720 to test out, and I haven't heard a GSSL clone.   I have the DBX 202C VCA's if I have a clone built, but wondering if it would really make that much of a difference.   If it's a big difference, I definitely would like to know.  Any thought or opinions would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks.
Click to expand...

Does anyone have any experiences to share?   If so, please indicate if the clone you compared with the Chameleon 7720 has That Corp or DBX 202C VCA's, including any mods than normal.   While it may not be an easy comparison to make between these models, any experiences is helpful to determine if there are any significant differences between the two which could affect the overall performance and sound.   Thanks.
 
Frankly, I don't think anyone who's built a GSSL would have bought a Chameleon Labs compressor as well, to be honest.

Cheers,

Dan
 
Not meant to be cruel,just my odd sense of hey hey,  I do hope you find your info..... and.. Just my 2 cents, build a GSSL with a turbo and worry about the music. BTW, I have never heard or mixed on an SSL console.  cheers, Lance
 
Looking at the picture and layout I could list a few things:

1. Compared to GSSL the basic architecture seems identical. Same "directly from the app notes" NE55XX I/O. Same THAT2181 based VCAs. Same mono sidechain rectification amp. ie. no "turbo" dual sidechain Abs() like behaviour, like in any real SSL comp.

2. With china caps and cheapest THAT2181 models there are, it's going to sound as mediocre as it possibly can.

3. Most likely the only bigger difference to gyraf design is that they have added a low pass sidechain filter, and what looks like a buffer for the I/O metering.

4. It does have one great advantage over the gyraf layout: PSU rectification, filtering and regulation is not on the audio PCB. This unit will probably have much better noise specs (some 20dB or so that I noticed with my own builds) than any standard clone based on the gyraf layout.

Anyone coming here looking for a cheap deal on GSSL clone, get this one instead. At $600-700 it's a great deal. Probably gonna sound as good or better than any beginners GSSL build-by-the-numbers unit.

If you were looking to solder stuff and maybe learn what makes this particular unit tick, or do great mods to it, you're in the right place.
 
Not trying to be a smartass, but one can _seriously_ soup-up the performance of standard, cheap 78xx/79xx psu designs. Hint: google up "Bugle Power Supply" and start from there.

Also, if planning on full dual-channel version, there are SO simple, effective and cheap ways to clean up the power delivery AND increase channel separation (2 resistors/4 caps per channel nominal, resistors can be used as jumpers on the PCB).

For output section: http://www.rane.com/note124.html figure 5.


So - when can we expect re-designed super-gssl's in BM and/or as a full project?


P.s. One can put the psu rectifiers on the same board and have decent spec - but you need to explicitly set up and maintain clean signal ground (obey Kirchoff laws).
Simple "rule" is to act "as if" the psu part is "glued" to the rest of the circuit ... and bypass the rectifier bridge mercilessly.
 
tv said:
So - when can we expect re-designed super-gssl's in BM and/or as a full project?
Click to expand...

I think many of us have been redoing the PSU already. I used a pretty standard fare LM317 + LM337 type replacement, still leaving the 78L12 79L12 on the PCB, with drastic improvements.

another (infinitely easier) mod is to leave all the NE55XX types out of the I/O section and replace with OPA604/OPA2604 or other more modern friends. Another drastic improvement.

Yet another (very interesting) mod is to replace the NE5534 of the VCAs and the TL types from the sidechain with OPA604, OPA2604 and OPA404 (or, again, with other modern friends). But then it no longer sounds like SSL. I did not expect this big a difference, but I urge anyone to try it. It sounds much cleaner and more controlled, and it removes the "phat" (in both good and bad way). I'm still not sure which one I prefer.
 
Kingston said:
Looking at the picture and layout I could list a few things:

1. Compared to GSSL the basic architecture seems identical. Same "directly from the app notes" NE55XX I/O. Same THAT2181 based VCAs. Same mono sidechain rectification amp. ie. no "turbo" dual sidechain Abs() like behaviour, like in any real SSL comp.

2. With china caps and cheapest THAT2181 models there are, it's going to sound as mediocre as it possibly can.

3. Most likely the only bigger difference to gyraf design is that they have added a low pass sidechain filter, and what looks like a buffer for the I/O metering.

4. It does have one great advantage over the gyraf layout: PSU rectification, filtering and regulation is not on the audio PCB. This unit will probably have much better noise specs (some 20dB or so that I noticed with my own builds) than any standard clone based on the gyraf layout.

Anyone coming here looking for a cheap deal on GSSL clone, get this one instead. At $600-700 it's a great deal. Probably gonna sound as good or better than any beginners GSSL build-by-the-numbers unit.

If you were looking to solder stuff and maybe learn what makes this particular unit tick, or do great mods to it, you're in the right place.
Click to expand...

Interesting comments.... Thanks!
 

Similar threads

N
Chameleon Labs 7720 - Intermittent Hiss/Crackle in one channel - Questions
Replies
8
Views
645
nanjo
N
A
SSL G-Bus Clone distortion measurements
Replies
5
Views
906
gyraf
gyraf
Z
Sold 2x Chameleon Labs 560eq
Replies
0
Views
665
zqone537
Z
usbdevice
Cloning a 1968 Silicon Fuzzrite
2
Replies
31
Views
1K
usbdevice
usbdevice
joulupukki
Getting 6-8 fewer dB out of a new DIY KM84 clone in a stereo matched pair
2 3 4
Replies
67
Views
3K
joulupukki
joulupukki

Latest posts

Back
Top