[TDM]

seems he's a member here as well....

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gearslutz-secondhand-gear-classifieds/454500-custom-built-clones.html

His "list" seems to be a laundry list of what's available here.

[audiovisceral]

Seems like a nice service.

I just very much hope he is not using any PCBs/designs from this community to produce them. 

[strangeandbouncy]

Well unless he has done his own layouts for all the gear on offer, I think there should be some questions in the house, don't you?



        I hope he has . . . . I personally would consider myself kinda dumb to use the same NAME in both forums otherwise . . . .


     . . . . . Come on Antonio, what have you got to say for yourself?

[EmRR]

GOD, WHO CARES!!!!!!!!

[strangeandbouncy]

well, actually, Doug,


   I Do.



    call me old fashioned, whatever.


     

[EmRR]

Sorry, that was short; Gyraf cares, as does anyone who explicitly states their boards are not for commercial use.  Outside of that, it's none of our business.   Send a complaint to GS pointing out the violation, if you wish to be proactive.  I think we all mostly have something better to focus on.   DIY does not implicitly imply a lack of commerce.....and good luck to the fool who thinks there's really a solid buck to be made in custom cloning.  

[strangeandbouncy]

Yes Doug, that was rather short . . .


       Yup, . . . . .  Gyraf, Drip, Keith/Rochey, NYD, Analag, and many many more.(thousand pardons if I haven't mentioned you ALL by name!)

               I have addressed Antoniosolo both here and at GS. I hope he makes a great justification. I am looking forward to it. I will happily send a complaint to GS if he doesn't repond convincingly. - I AM being proactive.

       Basically, if we don't care anymore, if anyone wishes to share anything here, from here on in, it is on their own heads. We lost the riches of several who used to post here a lot. NYD for example. This place is NOT the same without him, no matter how many others there are who share their wealth of knowledge. This is a unique place where good old fashioned gentlemanly behaviour has enriched us all. Rue the day anyone else withholds just in case some scheister decides to try to make a quick buck.

    I think your "who cares" attitude sucks, and I'm sure I am not alone. And, Yes,  it IS our business, GodDammit.



    Not withstanding, I send you my Kindest regards,



          ANdyP

[[silent:arts]]

ANdyP has valid points.

we have lost great members & great designs.
we have lost published schematics.
we have lost published PCB designs.
not for all, but for quite a few amazing projects.

if Antoniosolo asked for permission, like a gentleman would do, all is right.
if not I'm with ANdyP

best
Volker

[EmRR]

This thread shows up every few weeks, with a new offender as target, and it seems a real waste of time.   I don't think I'd ever put any DIY design out here, and expect any "non-commercial" requests to be honored; clearly there's ALWAYS an offender.   But, I'm a glass half-empty (broken and jagged) kind of guy.  I'd not be surprised at all, and I'm not.   It strikes me that it is such a ridiculous waste of time to even think about trying to make a buck selling clone builds, it's hard for me to take it seriously.  I fully expect anyone doing so to become disheartened with their bottom line, and quit pretty quickly.    Never mind they may be encouraged by the endless threads at GS such as "Who builds and sells the best GSSL?"  The only people I would truly feel threatened by are the industrial production types, who are gonna rip off the basic idea and re-tool anyway.   That's why some designers here have left.  

The individual commercial clone builder doing shoddy low quantity work?  I might just taunt them publicly Monty Python style until they and their potential customers saw the light and crawled away.  

I personally wouldn't issue a "non-commercial only" statement with a partial DIY product, if only to avoid getting angry about the inevitable.  But that's me.   Someone wants to buy a part from me because they think they can make a buck (after injecting more $$ and time), it's more sales for me.    I see "non-commercial only" on a circuit board, and my impression is that it is a disclaimer statement, meant to protect the board designer from any commercial lawsuit (SSL, UA, etc) for active participation in a commercial cloning enterprise.  That puts it off on the individual clone builder.  

Let's flip this around another way:  The people who occasionally show us the giant stack of something from here they built "because a studio hired me to do it."  What's the difference?  Simply the advertising?  I've not seen them chastised. 

Some things one can only build so many of; Hairball for one limits the quantities one may order.  

So far I'm not a clone designer, and not much of a clone builder, so I'm a bit removed.  I try to refrain from reading these sorts of posts, and I'm sorry I did.  Even more that I responded.  

[antoniosolo]

Yes Doug, that was rather short . . .


       Yup, . . . . .  Gyraf, Drip, Keith/Rochey, NYD, Analag, and many many more.(thousand pardons if I haven't mentioned you ALL by name!)

               I have addressed Antoniosolo both here and at GS. I hope he makes a great justification. I am looking forward to it. I will happily send a complaint to GS if he doesn't repond convincingly. - I AM being proactive.

       Basically, if we don't care anymore, if anyone wishes to share anything here, from here on in, it is on their own heads. We lost the riches of several who used to post here a lot. NYD for example. This place is NOT the same without him, no matter how many others there are who share their wealth of knowledge. This is a unique place where good old fashioned gentlemanly behaviour has enriched us all. Rue the day anyone else withholds just in case some scheister decides to try to make a quick buck.

    I think your "who cares" attitude sucks, and I'm sure I am not alone. And, Yes,  it IS our business, GodDammit.



    Not withstanding, I send you my Kindest regards,



          ANdyP

THE GENTLEMANLY BEHAVIOR WAS TO CONTACT ME WITH SEVERAL PM'S ACCUSING ME REPEATEDLY OF STEALING PCB'S.  I WOULD APPROACH ANYONE PRIOR TO ORDERING SOMETHING TO GET PERMISSION.  Having received help from probably all of you, I have no intention of gaining enemies that I will surely need one day on the next build as I and my associate don't know everything.....Gentlemanly behavior, you have DEFINITELY given some reason not to join us!  I ruined my JLM 3 rail a month ago because I didn't wire something right, 50 down the drain.....help is needed and if you need me to prove I am not stealing, I got no problem with that.  Politics is not a good thing!

[antoniosolo]

I HAVE NOT AND WILL NOT USE ANY PCB WITHOUT PRIOR APPROVAL OF ANYTHING I BUILD FOR ANYONE.  SCHEMATICS ARE READILY AVAILABLE, THIS "LIST " IS SIMILAR BECAUSE THAT'S ALL ANYONE EVER WANTS, DUH, AND I TOLD YOU WE WILL RESPECT ANY AND ALL RIGHTS AND RULES. 

Why you started a public crusade without proof, which is defamation, is beyond me.  I guess you're just fed up, I am too, but not over the craft I love, over the American way of controlling the political climate everywhere, even on this forum.  Our country just got robbed in an inside job, there should be indictments, there aren't, there are bonuses, and we ain't stood up yet.  I vote you to lead the crusade against selling off the place where all of my brothers and sisters, regardless of color, once hoped to remain "our land", we sold it!  We lead the world in theft, murder, drug use, corruption and now bankruptcies. 

[Biasrocks]

THE GENTLEMANLY BEHAVIOR WAS TO CONTACT ME WITH SEVERAL PM'S ACCUSING ME REPEATEDLY OF STEALING PCB'S.  I WOULD APPROACH ANYONE PRIOR TO ORDERING SOMETHING TO GET PERMISSION.  Having received help from probably all of you, I have no intention of gaining enemies that I will surely need one day on the next build as I and my associate don't know everything.....Gentlemanly behavior, you have DEFINITELY given some reason not to join us!  I ruined my JLM 3 rail a month ago because I didn't wire something right, 50 down the drain.....help is needed and if you need me to prove I am not stealing, I got no problem with that.  Politics is not a good thing!

I HAVE NOT AND WILL NOT USE ANY PCB WITHOUT PRIOR APPROVAL OF ANYTHING I BUILD FOR ANYONE.  SCHEMATICS ARE READILY AVAILABLE, THIS "LIST " IS SIMILAR BECAUSE THAT'S ALL ANYONE EVER WANTS, DUH, AND I TOLD YOU WE WILL RESPECT ANY AND ALL RIGHTS AND RULES.

Why you started a public crusade without proof, which is defamation, is beyond me.  I guess you're just fed up, I am too, but not over the craft I love, over the American way of controlling the political climate everywhere, even on this forum.  Our country just got robbed in an inside job, there should be indictments, there aren't, there are bonuses, and we ain't stood up yet.  I vote you to lead the crusade against selling off the place where all of my brothers and sisters, regardless of color, once hoped to remain "our land", we sold it!  We lead the world in theft, murder, drug use, corruption and now bankruptcies.

Wow.

I WOULD APPROACH ANYONE PRIOR TO ORDERING SOMETHING TO GET PERMISSION.

Since you're actively taking orders already, can we assume that you've secured permission from the various parties in advance.

Is that correct?

Mark

[antoniosolo]

The only "kit" we initially intended to use is the PURUSHA kit for the pultec, which I may not get permission for. WE CAN BREADBOARD ANYTHING, so why accuse accuse accuse without ANY proof?  But you have crusaded anyway  .  If it is illegal, we won't build it.  This is a labor of love....I noticed that most didn't rise to stone us from the initial post.  Must be cabin fever.....

[Biasrocks]

The only "kit" we initially intended to use is the PURUSHA kit for the pultec, which I may not get permission for. WE CAN BREADBOARD ANYTHING, so why accuse accuse accuse without ANY proof?  But you have crusaded anyway  .  If it is illegal, we won't build it.  This is a labor of love....I noticed that most didn't rise to stone us from the initial post.  Must be cabin fever.....

I must say, you do seem a bit defensive.

Take a deep breath...  

Breadboarding an 1176....

Not something I would want to spend my time doing and I'm not sure your customers would like it.

Mark

[antoniosolo]

Well,you have proven what you are made of, I am proven all over the country for who I am and what I do in my line of work.  I can't waste anymore time answering to you cats.  I already got my beloved gear.  If you got complaints, fill the box up, you know what happens to boxes around here......


Again, first-class gear-lover, I respect all the pro's I speak and deal with and appreciate all of the love..I don't need to steal from anyone......Ciao

[mushy]

Who knew Glenn Beck was into DIY audio?

[kambo]

he invented SC 

[canidoit]

I would like to know something:

- If a person offers their service with payment, to build a unit because the applicant can not do it, is that breaking the diy law?
- Isn't this the same as some people here, who buy like 4-20 cards, build the units and either sell it to their friends at cost + labour, or trade for other gear (diy or commercial)?

I have seen a couple of people here who buy more than 4 cards and continuously buy in those numbers???

I read the gearslutz thread and it sounds like he is offering his service to do the diy work for people that can not do it. I don't see him stamping the units with his own logo and selling it under his own brand.

I would also like to know, if a person bought 100 DIY PCB cards from here and built finished units from it and sold it at cost + labour and without placing a brand on the finished units, what kind of damage does this do to the PCB designers/sellers and the DIY community?

I am a little confused as to what the fuss is all about?

[TDM]

One example would be Mnats. He probably COULD sell his boards for $100+ each,
like Drip does. He CHOOSES to sell them cheaply for folks to DIY.
He probably WOULD provide them to a clone builder under a licensing agreement.
But that would have to be negotiated, one would assume, BEFORE you build and sell them to people.

There is a big difference between building a couple for friends, and offering a FOR PROFIT service on a large classifieds site.

I would like to know something:

- If a person offers their service with payment, to build a unit because the applicant can not do it, is that breaking the diy law?
- Isn't this the same as some people here, who buy like 4-20 cards, build the units and either sell it to their friends at cost + labour, or trade for other gear (diy or commercial)?

I have seen a couple of people here who buy more than 4 cards and continuously buy in those numbers???

I read the gearslutz thread and it sounds like he is offering his service to do the diy work for people that can not do it. I don't see him stamping the units with his own logo and selling it under his own brand.

I would also like to know, if a person bought 100 Mnats 1176 PCB cards and built finished units from it and sold it at cost + labour and without placing a brand on the finished units, what kind of damage does this do to Mnats and the DIY community?

I am a little confused as to what the fuss is all about?

[canidoit]

Its not really for profit, if all you are charging is for your build time?

Also Drips and Mnats are a little different. Drips has his own website, his own forum, etc. and hes setup is more like a commercial boutique PCB supplier. Not trying to offend Mnats, but Mnats approach is more like your local breadshop.

I would understand it more, if someone was ripping the designers here off (though subjective because these circuits are not original) by buying their branded PCB boards and selling a finished unit under their own brand but I am finding the fineline here a little blurry.

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