Ward Beck 460C modules

Well I got a handful of these and am going to rack them up. Even have the edge connectors. Anyone here into these? I am thinking I will take output from the pan control. The guy that got me these said the EQ's on these were all custom. Extremely well built, working on faceplates...

I had a WBS console in the studio for years, love that thing.

The EQ's were pretty much the same through out that series, there were minor revisions to the features as you went from A-E.

I've got the full tech manual on these. PM me your email and I'll forward it to you

Regards,
Mark

I had a 1202 for a little while. Thought it sounded pretty good. Has a nice mid thing for vocals/guitars.

No direct outs that would push 600 ohms(if need be). Needed to be added. These were the 480b modules tho...

desol said:

I had a 1202 for a little while. Thought it sounded pretty good. Has a nice mid thing for vocals/guitars.

No direct outs that would push 600 ohms(if need be). Needed to be added. These were the 480b modules tho...

Click to expand...

Same for the 460's, there were -10 to +4db boosters in the patchbay of my console for direct outs.

The module out that can be assigned to the busses is +4db nominal.

Regards,
Mark

Anything info wise needed on  ward beck stuff Start here.


http://wbsps.ca/

that is the Ward-Beck Systems Preservation Society and they got everything from manuals in pdf and schematics and just about anything you need. plus it's all free and you do not need to be a member to get the stuff. 8)

Are you saying the M480 modules won't drive line level without help ?

Mine were modified by someone, by adding an additional opamp as the direct out. I think i used LM4562's...
It was piggybacked off one of the opamps in the output section.

okgb said:

Are you saying the M480 modules won't drive line level without help ?

Click to expand...

Not sure about the 480's, are those the shorty mic-pre's without EQ?

I'm more familar with the full length 460 mic/line/EQ modules.

Direct Out is -10 nominal, there was additional booster cards in the patchbay for using them into a +4 input.

Fader out will drive 600ohm +4 no problem.

Actually you need to account for the faders 15db loss (aka 'in hand gain') when you rack mount these guys without the 600ohm fader.

I've got a hookup diagram somewhere.

Regards,
Mark

No, 480's were the loverly little mic pre/3 band eq units....no insert. As far as i remember, the 480c came with 5534(military versions) in the hybrid output section...which were ok with 600ohms. The previous versions A and B, had lm7?? something or other...which as i think as i was told, could have problems driving 600 well enough. The photo shows lm833...which he put in there originally...later i changed them out(probably for no particular reason)...to lm4562's.

I installed, restored and recorded/mixed a couple records on the 460 at the Wonder Chamber here in Austin. I know quite a lot about them and have racked a few up for people over the years. The EQ is one of the most useful I've encountered in a console. They have heat issues in the preamp section. A 32 channel console will generally have a surface temperature approaching 150 F without some sort of cooling system. There's a current source in the discrete opamp input stage that I replace with a ZTX651 (high current/high beta), and the consoles required a series of fans to operate correctly.

The input section could do with a mod, as the console (being intended for broadcast) was designed for insanely high headroom-- about 6db higher than anything else you'll find. The tradeoff is noise. Line input is stepped way down and delivered to the mic input post mic transformer, then gained way back up again immediately. You can reduce some of the noise by replacing the current source as I said before and heat sinking it.

There are two balanced booster cards on the strip-- one for instert, one for direct out. So there's no need to take the output from the pan pot.

I beg to differ.

I ran my Ward Beck 24/8/4 w/460M's in it non-stop and never encounted any heat issues, no fans, no special air conditioning, the board just ran. I wouldn't characterise it as noisy, either, plenty of headroom. I think mine topped out at +28dbm, close enough for rock n' roll! I find it hard to believe that major broadcasters would be happy with a 'noisy' board.

I got rid of the LM301's and upgraded the summing/lines amps as well, may have helped with your reported noise problem in my case.

Solid board, good sound.

Snap up a few if you can find em.

I've got a bunch of 460's sitting waiting to be racked, most likely to a 8-12 channel sidecar.

Regards,
Mark

My noise/headroom/heat statements were based on measurements, not a personal opinion. Any time you take a line level input, divide it down to (I believe it's 1/30th) it's original level and then immediately gain it back up to unity, you've added noise. That's not an advisable approach in a console design, but the designers clearly wanted to share the gain stage with the mic preamp. Also, the current source in the 409 preamp board is notoriously hot-- it's a class-A preamp, after all. It's a common problem in the 460. Pull a 409 sub-board and the odds are, you'll find tons of carbon buildup on the pcb, and in many cases you'll find actual heat damage to the pcb.

That said, it's doubtful that in your rack-up you'll have the same thermal issues one will have in a fully loaded, 32 channel console with fully enclosed modules.

(edit) I should also add that designers of Live and Broadcast consoles frequently make the noise for distortion/headroom tradeoff. Headroom is critical in broadcast applications, and so it's really no surprise that the designers configured the preamp in this way. By noisy I don't mean it's so noisy that it's unusable, but the noise floor is high enough (compared to a modern recording console) that thermal issues can put it firmly into the noticeable range.