Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2014, 07:32:53 PM »
I want to use a different PowerSupply. (PSU).  I'm looking into it.


EmRR

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2014, 12:36:54 PM »
The SR-71 seems like a very well thought out design, aligning some features off the original 670 schematic to modern needs.

However, it´s not an exact replica of a 670 as the Drip Versions are.

And I also agree that the Drip Units (especially Version 1 with the huge PCB) aren´t made to be shipped around a few times - but that´s not a critical point with these units, is it? I bet most of the people make these for themselves and don´t think about reselling them.

But, to bring this thread back to topic - the UE-100 is a much more clever design shippingwise with it´s 10 modular PCBs. Let´s talk about that one.

NONE OF THIS STUFF is an exact replica, so long as you are using a modern audio transformer set.  No one should ever fool themselves about this aspect.  At that point it become a question of cost comparison with labor factored in, guarantees/warranties, etc. 

Shipping; yeah, no one THINKS they are going to sell something they buy.  They frequently do. 
The real question with the construction of any DIY kit is:
Would it pass muster as a completed commercial product?  Would the DIY kit provider keep the same construction methods if they had to stand behind it as a finished product?   Do you look forward to disassembly and replacement of  relays on the UE-100?  Or picking up that assemblage of PCB's by the threaded rod spacers and shaking it?  Would DRIP feel good shipping out completed units with warranties, knowing what FedEx/UPS do to packages in transit?  I get a lot of stuff in for repair, and a fair amount of damage occurs internally even when the outside of the packages look fine.  Momentum is never your friend when the FedEx guy drops a 50 lb box, even with 4 inches of solid foam around a double box. 

Back to costs; I haven't seen a pair of UE-100's sell recently to know where they've gone lately, but the parts prices mentioned here top the prices for REAL K&H UNITS not that long ago. Not to mention where resale is gonna go. 

One argument says, 'but its DIY, the same standards don't apply as to commercial offerings'.  That's simply not true, they ARE commercial products that hand off all liability to the end user.  I've bought enough unsupported DIY kits here full of unfinished/untested design aspects, crap parts, bad layouts, and poor mechanical construction to jump in blindly on much of anything. 

Anyway, those are my concerns, sorry if my sharing ruffles feathers.  None of the math or liability add up in my mind.  I'll leave this alone now, unless requested otherwise.  If you are already in, I understand your desire to curse me.  Sorry again.  I hope the builds go well, sound fantastic, and provide many many years of solid service.
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2014, 01:05:16 PM »
NONE OF THIS STUFF is an exact replica, so long as you are using a modern audio transformer set.

I don't want to use 1960's PSU.  There have been improvements since then.  I would rather use a torodial transformer for the PSU.  Same reason why I want to use Metal resistors and not carbon.  The is no reason why one should use a lesser product. 

DRIP is sending 6.3 volts to the heaters, I want to change it to 12.6.  Doesn't the original send 12.6V ?  I thought it did.
See here
I have recently serviced a pair of those, Voltage at the secondaris are:
12.6, 280, 92V, 92V.  for the current:  4A for the filament , then 100mA for the rest, should be enough.

Mik.


At that point it become a question

Yes, I am being questioned about diving into this project as well.  Maybe I should know better.


Shipping; yeah, no one THINKS they are going to sell something they buy.  They frequently do. 

Correct.  But who wants to buy a DIY from some dude over the internet?  Only way for this to happen is to drop the price drastically.  At that point just keep the thing.


The real question with the construction of any DIY kit is:
Would it pass muster as a completed commercial product?

No.  The chassis is probably the biggests obsticle, then the construction of the innards.

  Do you look forward to disassembly and replacement of  relays on the UE-100?

I am not conserned with relays. How often do you expect them to go bad?  After 20 years? 


Anyway, those are my concerns, sorry if my sharing ruffles feathers.  None of the math or liability add up in my mind.

I think you have some valid concerns, and I would like to hear them.  So don't stop   ;D 

EmRR

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2014, 01:26:53 PM »
OK then.

I don't want to use 1960's PSU.  There have been improvements since then.  I would rather use a torodial transformer for the PSU.  Same reason why I want to use Metal resistors and not carbon.  The is no reason why one should use a lesser product. 

I've seen plenty of DIY with toroidal transformers that had large hum.   They can be implemented badly, or poorly designed in the first place.   Many overbuilt vintage products used wire-wound resistors rather than carbon.  I don't know about the UE-100, but the ability to use two different old units and have them still match tightly suggests either wire-wound resistors or 'T' type passive attenuators within the circuit.  Many old 'T's are wire-wound, or even if they are carbon the nature of the design makes it such that drift affects very little, only surrounding Z affects greatly. 

I am not conserned with relays. How often do you expect them to go bad?  After 20 years? 

If you follow DIY threads here, you see relays that are bad with reasonable frequency when people are trouble-shooting new builds using one or two relays.  Relays are of course made in many different quality ranges, but I can't get by a circuit that uses a large amount of relays sandwiched away deeply with much comfort.  Maybe build a relay test bed before installing so many, be sure they really all work?   In the old days relays were frequently socketed, you can do that today too.  That's maybe helpful if you can get to them easily. 
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2014, 03:52:59 PM »
Haha, the ridiculous price of this project somehow has steered this thread in direction of a general discussion, wether (pricey) DIY stuff is a good thing per se.

I have… let´s say lots of DIY Units, so maybe I got some thought on this.

First of all - yeah, all DRIP PCBs are incredibly pricey. The parts they want you to use are too.

Quote
NONE OF THIS STUFF is an exact replica

You have to be more precise here, as this applies for some DIY units, for others not really. The DRIP Versions of the LA2A, called Opto3 till Opto 5 - you can see, that they changed some stuff along the way and none of their "interpretations" are 100% true to the original design. Same goes for their Redd47 PreAmps, which also exist in many versions.

There are many very precise Pultec PTP DIY Kits, also many PULTEC clones with good PCB solutions., very true to the design Neve Clones etc.

As for the DRIP 670 - you can make it very close to an old one if you use only old iron, NOS Tubes and so on and on. Only difference would be that it´s not PTP. Some units (like many old RCA comps etc., LA2A etc.) you can make PTP - if you want to. But being exact isn´t the point of DIY or is it? The main advantage is, you can stay true to the original design where you think it might make sense and I believe this what the good People at DRIP do too. In some parts of the schematic you might implement a more modern part, like a quieter toroidal power transformer you mentioned. Or you might improve the unit with some extra functions you might want.

Quote
Would it pass muster as a completed commercial product?

Most of the DRIP Units, especially the large ones - hell no. But, as for many many 500/51x DIY modules: Yeah, of course they would. Think of the Hairball Audio Kits, the TB Audio Stuff, the Classic API Kits. Or the Serpent Audio 4K Compressor (speaking of the 19" Version)- yeah, these units could match some commercial units (especially since many commercially units are build in China nowadays. Oh, and have you ever opened some of your commercial gear… some units are… pretty bad) Actually, we use some of the older Hairball 1176 clones in 19" enclosures in our live gear and tour with them a lot, andthey are pretty much okay on the road and hold up against their commercial counterparts.

Quote
Would DRIP feel good shipping out completed units with warranties, knowing what FedEx/UPS do to packages in transit?

I believe, you can order custom build units from them, so they might feel good about this. But: Would ANYBODY feel good about shipping a tube unit with FedEx/UPS or any other carrier? I often get asked if I could build units for other peoples to meet their exact demand on a certain piece of equipment, and the reason why I don´t do this is exactly the transportation aspect. I would feel good selling to someone nearby, but having the UPS dude drop my hours of work on somebodys doorstep… no. Even with the greatest care taken in the build, nah. But with 500 modules - yeah, why not.

Quote
Momentum is never your friend when the FedEx guy drops a 50 lb box, even with 4 inches of solid foam around a double box. 

Totally agreed.

Quote
Back to costs; I haven't seen a pair of UE-100's sell recently to know where they've gone lately, but the parts prices mentioned here top the prices for REAL K&H UNITS not that long ago. Not to mention where resale is gonna go. 

That´s true. It´s also way cheaper to get, say for example an old Altec 436C from ebay and refurbish it compared to building the DRIP 436 version. But saving money (at least for me) is not the main point with DIY, is it? It´s building a new unit out of the best parts that you can source.
Of course using better performing/smaller/quieter/more precise/better sounding parts than in the old units is an advantage. The whole point is not to recreate an old unit with it´s deficits, but getting rid of these in the process of building your own version.

I mean, I see your points, but shouldn´t we move this thread back to questions regarding the build of the UE-100 and not wether someone should tackle this build or not?  :)

BTW, my RS Electronics order arrived finally and I might finish the thing in the next days. Case still in the making.




EmRR

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2014, 04:09:35 PM »
Yes, by all means get back to the discussion of finishing these builds!  Sorry to derail.  Plenty of points that could be addressed further in a different general thread. 
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #46 on: September 08, 2014, 04:58:27 PM »
i honestly respect everyone taking the challenge. but i honestly dont understand this project. 8k for a stereo unit?
i can easily get you two originals for that price any day of the week. so whats the point of putting this much work and money into something that will not sound like the original anyways and have no real market value? i dont get it...

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #47 on: September 08, 2014, 05:07:47 PM »
i honestly dont understand this project. 8k for a stereo unit?
i can easily get you two originals for that price any day of the week.

You must have incredible sources.  The only places I see them are on eBay.  Almost 12K for a pair.

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #48 on: September 08, 2014, 05:10:49 PM »
i honestly dont understand this project. 8k for a stereo unit?
i can easily get you two originals for that price any day of the week.

You must have incredible sources.  The only places I see them are on eBay.  Almost 12K for a pair.

im in germany....

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #49 on: September 08, 2014, 05:29:48 PM »

U.S central banking is far superior in printing than Germany.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2AvU2cfXRk

I believe we were saying 8K USD.  Not the Euro or Pound.



EmRR

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #51 on: September 09, 2014, 10:24:18 AM »
Ebay asking price isn't always reality, it's usually top dollar from a dreamer, you have to shop elsewhere and be patient.  There's all sorts of vintage audio on ebay for month after month after year with a crazy price and no sales.  Even if that sells at that price, it only means that a buyer 'believed', or didn't care about the cost.  We need to see a a half dozen sales across multiple sales platforms.   
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2014, 12:22:42 PM »
Received my Silonex today and have been told, that my case is finished in the next two weeks.

Looking forward finishing this project!

fobee

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2014, 03:22:27 PM »
Received my Silonex today and have been told, that my case is finished in the next two weeks.

Looking forward finishing this project!

I've Tested the Power supply today, Voltages are Bang On! All I need is to receive the case and calibrate this baby!

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #54 on: September 13, 2014, 06:48:31 AM »
Did you get the Sowter with the extra 4A/10V Winding for the relays?

fobee

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #55 on: September 13, 2014, 02:40:34 PM »
Did you get the Sowter with the extra 4A/10V Winding for the relays?
No, I had a spare transformer 10 VAC/10 amps and it gives me  11.74 Volts DC for the relays and the fans.
But the Sowter Voltages are bang on. I've got  +105V and -105V DC from the bipolar PSU and 305VDC for the B+ and 6,35VDC for all the heaters. That's without loads.

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2014, 03:44:21 PM »
Made some nice RCA Cables for the internal wiring.

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #57 on: September 15, 2014, 05:11:13 PM »
Are they made out of Gold?

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #58 on: September 16, 2014, 03:28:07 AM »
Solid Gold of course.

gyraf

Re: Drip UE-100
« Reply #59 on: September 17, 2014, 04:23:08 AM »
originals were plastic. sounds much better.




















...just kidding...
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..