bad concept.
« on: May 15, 2018, 04:20:25 PM »

One intractable problem in the middle east is two, three, or more religions laying claim to the same dirt. Mecca, Jerusalem, and other religiously significant cities are not shared well.

JR

Seems to me the Palestinians want to share. The Israeli's don't.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 01:32:21 PM by JohnRoberts »


Re: bad concept.
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2018, 06:47:45 PM »
Seems to me the Palestinians want to share. The Israeli's don't.

Let the truth be known.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 01:32:44 PM by JohnRoberts »

Re: bad concept.
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2018, 11:52:18 AM »
Oh nice, big endorsement of india's caste system from gyraf. Daddy's little ghoul...

Exactly. Too many turning a blind eye to 'this' bad science fiction concept.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 01:33:06 PM by JohnRoberts »

Re: bad science fiction concept.
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2018, 12:23:17 PM »
Daddy's little ghoul was in reference to ivanka trump.
When you make imprisonment a source of profit for the capitalist class, every single person's freedom is at risk. - LTrotsky21

Re: bad concept.
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2018, 12:31:51 PM »
I know. I didn't want to take up space with the picture.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 01:33:22 PM by JohnRoberts »

Re: bad concept.
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2018, 07:19:45 PM »
The Israeli treatment of Palestinians is indeed a, bad concept. Bad, bad bad.

Thanks to JR for starting this thread on my behalf. Maybe a little more awareness will come to light showing how greedy, disinterested and unforgiving they have shown themselves to be.

And everyone knows it.


scott2000

Re: bad concept.
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2018, 08:54:37 PM »
I thought Hamas was pretty against letting anything stay as it is in any form???

Didn't Israel move citizens and leave Gaza a while back??


Seems to me  that there may be  two types of Palestinian beliefs at play....those that want to share, and those that don't....

So, I'm not certain "I know it" yet...... Still learning though.....


I wonder if I'll ever be able to drive by a pile of stuff on the curb without ever stopping to look....



This looks hopeful...Wikipedia

The 2017 charter accepted for the first time the idea of a Palestinian state within the borders that existed before 1967 and rejects recognition of Israel which it terms as the "Zionist enemy".[2] It advocates such a state as transitional but also advocates "liberation of all of Palestine".[17][18] The new document also states that the group doesn't seek war with the Jewish people but only against Zionism which it holds responsible for "occupation of Palestine".[19] Mashal also stated that Hamas was ending its association with the Muslim Brotherhood.[17]










« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 09:02:08 PM by scott2000 »
"Give me a 25-stack of 9V batts, I'll monitor my truck's spark or fuel injection on the magic eye." PRR

Re: bad concept.
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2018, 10:04:36 PM »
I really don't need objective proof to see that the Palestinians have basically been shamboozeled off of their land and out of their homes,  but even then, are willing to move past it to go home to live in peace with the current occupiers.  I also don't need any proof to see that the Israeli's do not 'share' the same sentiment. It's a one sided argument.

There was a link I had posted a while back about a settlement, showing how easy it could be for them to live and share the land. But these were ordinary people, not zionists or whoever is there now, whatever you want to call them. I call them greedy and mean, because that is essentially what they're doing. 58 dead with slings and burnt tires.

scott2000

Re: bad concept.
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2018, 10:34:59 PM »
I really don't need objective proof ......
It's a one sided argument.......
I really don't need objective proof to see that the Palestinians have basically been shamboozeled off of their land and out of their homes,  but even then, are willing to move past it to go home to live in peace with the current occupiers.  I also don't need any proof to see that the Israeli's do not 'share' the same sentiment. It's a one sided argument. call them greedy and mean, because that is essentially what they're doing. 58 dead with slings and burnt tires.

..It's confusing for me.... I hope to someday understand everything to where I am as bold.... There's just so much out there I can't make that claim yet....One day maybe.....Like this stuff....What the heck???? Israeli propaganda ????.... We'd have to question many sources that appear often if that's the case.....

Hamas admits:
50 terrorists among Gaza dead

Hamas leader tells Arab television station 50 out of 60 Gazans killed during Monday's riots were members of terror group.

At various points during the riots, IDF soldiers were attacked with guns and various explosives, including grenades, pipe bombs, and firebombs.

In addition to the 50 'martyrs' claimed by Hamas, the Islamic Jihad terrorist organization claimed that three of its members were among those killed on Monday.


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/246088


Then you have Australia agreeing....
Australia's prime minister has blamed the militant group Hamas for the deaths of more than 50 Palestinians under Israeli fire along the Israel-Gaza border.

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull told Melbourne Radio 3AW: "Hamas' conduct is confrontational. They're seeking to provoke the Israeli defense forces."

http://www.tampabay.com/the-latest-australia-blames-hamas-for-palestinian-deaths-ap_nationalb83dac724dc04a699d3861cf740dbf45


Then the Hamas leader doesn't seem like he's giving the most rational advice to a solution...... I mean really???Days before this

“What’s the problem with hundreds of thousands of people parading through a fence that’s not a border?” he said Thursday. “What’s the problem with an influx like that?”

Mr. Sinwar offered lip service to nonviolence, saying he hoped that the presence of international journalists would constrain Israeli soldiers from massacring people who crossed the fence. But he demurred when asked if he would urge protesters to refrain from trying to cross the fence, as hundreds of others have tried with often fatal results. Since the demonstration began on March 30, 47 people have been killed and nearly 7,000 wounded.

A day earlier, however, speaking to hundreds of young Gazans, Mr. Sinwar was far less restrained in his language, saying, “We would rather die as martyrs than die out of oppression and humiliation,” and adding, “We are ready to die, and tens of thousands will die with us.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/10/world/middleeast/gaza-protests-yehya-sinwar.html


I don't know..... Maybe that post of the peaceful settlement you mentioned didn't include some of the other side as well..... Just trying to make sense of it.....






"Give me a 25-stack of 9V batts, I'll monitor my truck's spark or fuel injection on the magic eye." PRR

Re: bad concept.
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2018, 10:57:07 PM »
Basically the Israeli's stole everything and more and the Palestinians want it back. Not complicated.

It's a bad concept to steal. To knowingly steal.


scott2000

Re: bad concept.
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2018, 11:10:53 PM »
I always thought the Jews immigrated there in large numbers from the early 1900s on..........I guess they thought it was their ancient homeland.........The Palestinians didn't like this.....Fighting started.....

The UN stuck a deal to split the land.......

Palestinians didn't like the deal....Fighting started.....

Israel fought back...... and won..... leaving Palestinians with less.......then they gave back Gaza

I don't know though....Learning as I go......

"Give me a 25-stack of 9V batts, I'll monitor my truck's spark or fuel injection on the magic eye." PRR

Re: bad concept.
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2018, 11:32:14 PM »
I've been watching youtube video's of Jews kicking the sh*t out of defenseless Palestinians for ten years. Encroaching on land they shouldn't, expanding settlements where they have no right to, etc.

"God gave us this land"...Yeah. Ok.  ::)

My great grandmother was jewish by the way.

scott2000

Re: bad concept.
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2018, 12:00:36 AM »
Yeah it's sad..... Violence sucks...

My great Great  (great?) grandfather was an Indian (Creek) here where I'm at....



Hopefully it'll all work out.....

"Give me a 25-stack of 9V batts, I'll monitor my truck's spark or fuel injection on the magic eye." PRR

fazer

Re: bad concept.
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2018, 08:57:45 AM »
Quote
It's a bad concept to steal. To knowingly steal.

Sounds just like Wallstreet.

JohnRoberts

Re: bad concept.
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2018, 10:19:16 AM »
I've been watching youtube video's of Jews kicking the sh*t out of defenseless Palestinians for ten years. Encroaching on land they shouldn't, expanding settlements where they have no right to, etc.

"God gave us this land"...Yeah. Ok.  ::)

My great grandmother was jewish by the way.
For years I have watched this stalemate play out. The two sides are not even close to what they both consider an acceptable outcome (Israel will not surrender their existence without a fight). Even before youtube and modern social media I've seen compelling images showing "innocents" being killed. There has been a long running "bad" publicity campaign. This does not mean these images are faked, just typically out of context. Sometimes they are intentionally staged to create publicity to get world attention, and influences world opinion, like the current border protests.

International media is now conflating the border protests with the embassy opening as if they needed an excuse to protest. The "innocent" Palestinians being injured while trying to break through the border fence are pawns organized and being used by their leaders as fodder precisely to create negative publicity for Israel. A baby died in the recent protest (from tear gas I think), but why would any mother in her right mind carry a baby into such a hazardous situation? 

Egypt is pressuring Hamas to stop the senseless deaths from this recent confrontation, while the knee jerk response from the west is to condemn Israel. As long as Hamas is winning the PR war, and keeps getting funding from the west, they will continue with this long game.

I do not pretend that anything about this conflict is simple and have written a lot about this right here for years. I invite all to do their own homework but be aware there are strong opinions and a lot of distorted rhetoric coming from both sides to influence the uninformed.

Please don't take my word for anything, but keep in mind media does not always present a very well balanced picture. 

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

Re: bad concept.
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2018, 11:04:48 AM »
Quote
IDF Soldier Recounts Harrowing, Heroic War Story Of Killing 8-Month-Old Child


JERUSALEM—Describing the terrifying yet valiant experience to his fellow battalion members, Israel Defense Forces soldier Yossi Saadon recounted Tuesday his harrowing, heroic war story of killing an 8-month-old Palestinian child during a violent attack against protesters. “It was a heart-pounding experience—there was smoke and gunfire all around me, and I made a split-second decision to hurl that canister of tear gas at the encroaching infant cradled in her father’s arms,” said Saadon to the group of awed soldiers, describing the chills that went up and down his spine as he realized that all he had was his M16 assault rifle and some tear gas to defend himself against the unarmed Palestinian family standing only dozens of yards away. “I could see the whites of the baby’s eyes and hear her terrifying cries, and I knew it was either her or me. And this wasn’t some newborn infant, you know? This was a baby who could probably sit up independently. I was scared, but I acted quickly to throw that tear gas at her and her older sister. And who knows how many lives I saved when I shot the women trying to help her?” At press time, Saadon’s battalion commander informed him that he was submitting his name for the Medal of Valor, the IDF’s highest honor.

https://www.theonion.com/idf-soldier-recounts-harrowing-heroic-war-story-of-kil-1826048745
When you make imprisonment a source of profit for the capitalist class, every single person's freedom is at risk. - LTrotsky21

Re: bad concept.
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2018, 11:09:08 AM »
Quote
Resistance to apartheid within South Africa took many forms over the years, from non-violent demonstrations, protests and strikes to political action and eventually to armed resistance. Together with the South Indian National Congress, the ANC organized a mass meeting in 1952, during which attendees burned their pass books. A group calling itself the Congress of the People adopted a Freedom Charter in 1955 asserting that “South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black or white.” The government broke up the meeting and arrested 150 people, charging them with high treason.

In 1960, at the black township of Sharpesville, the police opened fire on a group of unarmed blacks associated with the Pan-African Congress (PAC), an offshoot of the ANC. The group had arrived at the police station without passes, inviting arrest as an act of resistance. At least 67 blacks were killed and more than 180 wounded. Sharpesville convinced many anti-apartheid leaders that they could not achieve their objectives by peaceful means, and both the PAC and ANC established military wings, neither of which ever posed a serious military threat to the state. By 1961, most resistance leaders had been captured and sentenced to long prison terms or executed. Nelson Mandela, a founder of Umkhonto we Sizwe (“Spear of the Nation”), the military wing of the ANC, was incarcerated from 1963 to 1990; his imprisonment would draw international attention and help garner support for the anti-apartheid cause.

Apartheid Comes to an End

In 1976, when thousands of black children in Soweto, a black township outside Johannesburg, demonstrated against the Afrikaans language requirement for black African students, the police opened fire with tear gas and bullets. The protests and government crackdowns that followed, combined with a national economic recession, drew more international attention to South Africa and shattered all illusions that apartheid had brought peace or prosperity to the nation. The United Nations General Assembly had denounced apartheid in 1973, and in 1976 the UN Security Council voted to impose a mandatory embargo on the sale of arms to South Africa. In 1985, the United Kingdom and United States imposed economic sanctions on the country.

Under pressure from the international community, the National Party government of Pieter Botha sought to institute some reforms, including abolition of the pass laws and the ban on interracial sex and marriage. The reforms fell short of any substantive change, however, and by 1989 Botha was pressured to step aside in favor of F.W. de Klerk. De Klerk’s government subsequently repealed the Population Registration Act, as well as most of the other legislation that formed the legal basis for apartheid. A new constitution, which enfranchised blacks and other racial groups, took effect in 1994, and elections that year led to a coalition government with a nonwhite majority, marking the official end of the apartheid system.

https://www.history.com/topics/apartheid
When you make imprisonment a source of profit for the capitalist class, every single person's freedom is at risk. - LTrotsky21

Re: bad concept.
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2018, 01:29:34 PM »
Quote from: desol on Today at 12:57:20 PM

    In a way, it is a part of this original thread, even tho it's not the main focus. I can't start a separate thread, in reply to an element in another...

    I have tried to keep subsequent replies on the exact topic. But now I'm getting off topic about the topic..

"You don't have to, I already did and moved your posts over there.

I edited down the name of the split thread to "bad concept" because that was easy.

JR"

Ok. I've moved your reply over to the topic at hand, because I thought that was the appropriate thing to do.

Stealing land and beating people up in the name of god, is indeed a 'bad' concept. I wish it were more complicated than that.

scott2000

Re: bad concept.
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2018, 03:31:22 PM »
That Anon looks like some of it was shot in the same areas as John Wick...... :D
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 03:41:44 PM by scott2000 »
"Give me a 25-stack of 9V batts, I'll monitor my truck's spark or fuel injection on the magic eye." PRR

Re: bad concept.
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2018, 10:49:34 PM »
Quote
Love too expand my borders and then massacre the people already there for "infiltrating" me.

https://twitter.com/JediofGallifrey/status/996519013701373952
When you make imprisonment a source of profit for the capitalist class, every single person's freedom is at risk. - LTrotsky21


 

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