andre tchmil

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #80 on: February 02, 2006, 07:45:34 PM »
Quote from: "TobWen"
uhm, did you guys find a solution? if not, I could help ...


Go on.


TobWen

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #81 on: February 02, 2006, 07:59:08 PM »
okay, currently I am working on an A/D and D/A and I really have to laugh about the Behringer thing ... it's a direct copy of the design-notes by wavefront. Okay, some modifications, but really funny!

Oops, I just say, "nrgrecording" had the same idea like me.
That's exactly the right way to bypass, but I would solder in a 2k2 or 3k9 to the inputs of the first ... I might be wrong (it's late here).
Don't believe me... I dunno anything about electronics.

clintrubber

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #82 on: February 02, 2006, 08:14:47 PM »
Quote from: "TobWen"
okay, currently I am working on an A/D and D/A and I really have to laugh about the Behringer thing ... it's a direct copy of the design-notes by wavefront. Okay, some modifications, but really funny!


Serious, are you aware of the amount of additional support that IC-manufacturers have to give to customers using their ICs but decided to do it just a little bit different to give it something of their own ?

If there's a different requirement then sure, change it, but if the stock/prescribed/suggested way of the application note does what your application requires then please just follow the note & all details without trying to be smarter just for the fun of it. Application notes are there for a reason and you would be amazed how many can go wrong. Robust ICs & designs should be able to take some, but the way ICs can be misused is sometimes beyond imagination. So we might need to thank Beh. for 'copying' the design notes. I wouldn't call that copying, but just 'using' the design notes - as intended !

Enough :thumb: , bye,

  Peter

TobWen

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #83 on: February 02, 2006, 08:20:47 PM »
Yeah, of course design-notes are hints by the manufactor, that's true.
But how about OWN invention? Why only following their ideas?

Our next project, which will be released is the 1-pot-compressor.
It's based on THAT's design-note, but we've insert some of our ideas:
A brand new automatic attack-release circuit and some nice ideas to prevent bass-pumping.

The design-notes are just hints ... not a building instruction! If there were no new ideas, all gears would sound equal or even identical. Buuuh! :-)
Don't believe me... I dunno anything about electronics.

clintrubber

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #84 on: February 02, 2006, 08:30:10 PM »
All fine of course, when there are additional requirements or good additional features possible. But what should Beh. have done else than simply AtoD & DtoA with those chips ?

There is one clear thing that they should have done though  :evil: , but that's been repeated enough now...

Quote
But how about OWN invention? Why only following their ideas?

Once you've decided to use ICs then it's the law you should proceed as in the application note !  :twisted:  Do your inventions in your own backyard  :twisted:

Kidding aside, have fun with that 1-pot-That-circuit & success !

Bye,

  Peter

TobWen

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #85 on: February 02, 2006, 08:41:37 PM »
Behringer has used the most simple A/D and D/A possible. I have seen DACs with 10 parts or something, but this here is really weak.

We'll use CS5361 converters and OPA2134 OP-amps, since it gives less possible noise at highest possible quality. The CS has 114 dB and our first prototyp (with OPA2134) has -110 dB. That's near the theorethical level!!!

That's invention. Have a look at RME. They're using the AKM5392 and JRC4580. That's also an own idea instead of using the design-notes. And the ADI8 Pro/DS is definitely a nice unit.
Don't believe me... I dunno anything about electronics.

Kev

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #86 on: February 02, 2006, 09:59:17 PM »
Nice to see that RME are prepared to talk about the design

http://www.rme-audio.com/english/techinfo/adi8.htm

changed from the original Analog Devices AD1855 chip

as to whether they used application notes for the AKM5392 ... I don't know cos I haven't bothered to look one up.
 :roll:
What is an AKM5392 and is a re-badged unit from one of the other manufacturers ?
Kev
DIY Factory

TobWen

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #87 on: February 03, 2006, 04:59:35 AM »
AKM = http://www.asahi-kasei.co.jp

AKM5392:
116dB 48kHz 24-Bit Enhanced Dual Bit ADC (it's ADI8 Pro only)
but hell, this beast is crazy!!

datasheet of AKM5392:
http://www.asahi-kasei.co.jp/akm/en/product/ak5392/ak5392_f01e.pdf
eval. board of AKM5392:
http://www.asahi-kasei.co.jp/akm/en/product/ak5392/ekd5392.pdf

by the way ... Apogee AD8000 uses the AKM5391 :-)
Don't believe me... I dunno anything about electronics.

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #88 on: February 03, 2006, 09:50:23 AM »
My humble little EMU1820M uses the AK5394.

AK5394A - 24-bit 192K 123dB, Highest Performance ADC (from akm.com)

What factors would drive a high end mfgr. like Apogee or RME to use one of the lower spec'ed ADC's?  Is it simply a case that the AK5394 wasn't around when the unit was designed?

-Chris

TobWen

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #89 on: February 03, 2006, 09:58:59 AM »
ADI8 Pro: AKM5392 performs better at 44.1 and 48 kHz
ADI8 DS: AK5394 is a little more expensive and works better at double speed
Don't believe me... I dunno anything about electronics.


bitman

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #90 on: July 08, 2006, 04:10:35 PM »
Quote from: "nrgrecording"
Hi.

What about this idea of removing the mic preamp section:



http://www.nrgrecording.de/tempfolder/behringer_ADA_no_preamp.pdf

I changed some things in my little behringer mixer and i like the idea of removing smd resistors to make new connections.. at least for me... it works. And the mixer is working since month... without problems...  :wink:  ahem... whats that smell?... smoke! :green: :roll:



The idea is to remove the 10k series resistors of the line input, so you can connect two wires here (inverting and non inverting signal). The next connection to the following opamp (TL074) are for example the 825ohm resistors. (looks like an emitter-resistor). So when they're removed we have the point to connect the line input to the opamp...

For disconnecting the micpreamp section from the opamp it should be better to remove some parts...  (see the red crosses)

So the mic input isn't working anymore, but the line input is symmetrical. Should be doable in an hour and we don't need to cut traces.

comments?

Frank.


Hey Hey!

I just did this to one channel and it worked great!
I hooked up a high performance channel strip output though a
pair of 10k resistors to the inputs of the 1st tlo74 opamp.

When you open up the ada8000, you will see 8 cable harneses
with 5 wires each one red and 4 black. one for each channel.
With the ADA8000 knobs facing you, the left most red wire
is the + input to the tl084 opamp, the next wire to the right
of the red one is the minus input to the opamp. I cut both wires in the middle.

I soldered a 10k resistor to the red and black wire that lead to
the ADC/DAC board and wired my channel strip outputs hi and low
to the other leg of the 10 resistors.

Works great and sounds excellent! And Beh would have wanted
it this way too. 'Cause you can run your external cool preamp wires
right through the line in jacks on the ADA8000.
There are holes in the ADA8000 PCB so your cable can snake right though and to where you want to do your soldering. This makes is semi clean and while no etches were harmed and no SMD parts needed to be desoldered, with only 2 wires cut, one can put it back the way it was real easy. Why you would want to put it back however is beyond me, unless you can get an Appogee. And sell your ADA8000 off. :-)

Do all this at your own risk and buzz out everything as you go.

Thank you to all in this thread, I am forever in your debt.

:Rock on
LSB

Svart

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #91 on: November 13, 2006, 09:17:13 PM »
where did this end up?

what about using crystal converters and the adat outputs from the ada8k?
Welcome to the GroupDIY leper colony! when something falls off, we just replace it with a tube!
occupation: General Electron Mayhem

Alesis X2 information repository:
http://www.theopiumdenproductions.

Svart

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #92 on: November 13, 2006, 09:26:00 PM »
another question, from the A/d converters, where do the signals go?  to another IC?  what model?
Welcome to the GroupDIY leper colony! when something falls off, we just replace it with a tube!
occupation: General Electron Mayhem

Alesis X2 information repository:
http://www.theopiumdenproductions.

Purusha

BEWARE!!! : )
« Reply #93 on: November 14, 2006, 09:20:28 AM »
I don't want to kill the excitements around ADA8000 but I suggest you check the phase issue with DA on ADA8000. I found it has some weird problems with DA. I hooked it to my E-MU 1820M as additional 8 DA. If you run the same signal through E-MU and ADA they should add up in volume right? OK, they do but you get a funny flanger effect with it so there must be something wrong with the DA in ADA8000. Anyway, just something I came across recently.
Regards as always, Purusha

gyraf

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #94 on: November 14, 2006, 09:29:06 AM »
that could come from different use of buffers/latency?
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

Purusha

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #95 on: November 14, 2006, 09:42:44 AM »
The latency should be the same for EMU as for ADA as far as I understand. Otherwise you should have latency on 0 when using additional ADAT converters. I heard about this problem with ADA before. That is why I borrowed the thing and made a test.
Regards as always, Purusha

Michael Krusch

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #96 on: November 14, 2006, 10:20:33 AM »
If the buffer is different you should only hear a constant cancellation in the spectrum.
If it is really a flanger (cancellation is moving) then something is wrong.

Rossi

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #97 on: November 14, 2006, 12:15:28 PM »
Quote from: "TobWen"
Behringer has used the most simple A/D and D/A possible. I have seen DACs with 10 parts or something, but this here is really weak.

We'll use CS5361 converters and OPA2134 OP-amps, since it gives less possible noise at highest possible quality. The CS has 114 dB and our first prototyp (with OPA2134) has -110 dB. That's near the theorethical level!!!

That's invention. Have a look at RME. They're using the AKM5392 and JRC4580. That's also an own idea instead of using the design-notes. And the ADI8 Pro/DS is definitely a nice unit.


Interestinyly enough, Matthias Carstens of RME used to work for Beh: "[...] I later worked in a music store, where I gained a reputation as a good repair man, and eventually went on to become head product designer for Behringer, where I designed the Edison, the Supressor, the Ultramatch and my personal favourite, the Combinator, a four-way compressor/limiter with more than 2000 components inside. My last development for the company was a piece of tube circuitry which allowed harmonics to be added in a controlled way."

from Sound on Sound http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul05/articles/rme.htm
"I am not a number, I'm a free man!"
"Hahahahaaaaaa!!!!!"

synthi

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #98 on: November 14, 2006, 08:18:14 PM »
Hi purusha
Some questions:

What unit is the master clock, emu or ada?
Also, how are you syncing the units, wordclock or adat?

Sync thru adat have lots of jitter, even using short cables. With more than 1-1.5 meters things go really bad. That can explain the "flanging effect" since jitter is variable.
did you tried comparing several da outouts from the ada alone? does the same flanging with two ada channels?

You must use wordclock sync for "pro" use.

Best regards!

Synthi

Purusha

Behringer ADA8000 pre bypass questions
« Reply #99 on: November 15, 2006, 04:04:27 AM »
I just tried this with 4-5m optical cable and ADA as slave. I didn't have the BNC cable. I also didn't compare more channels on ADA. So I can't say if your suggestion would not solve the problem. Maybe someone else can make more tests. I returned the ADA to the store, my EMU is for sale and my new Creamware system is on the way, so I don't care much about this sync problem with ADA anymore :green:
Regards as always, Purusha


 

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