vf14 vs uf14 vs ef14

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asm

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i see alot of the 'replacement' or 'clone' u47 mics use the ef86 (like jakobs and blue restorations for the u47).

has anyone ever used the uf14 or ef14? wonder how close it is to the vf14 and what makes them so much different? i'm guessing noise factor being a main issue, since alot of these werent used for audio applications?
 
Oh boy.
How many words do you want on this?
Paperback or Britanica?

Here's a little snipit:

Hello LR Rec,

the answer is yes and no,
to clarify:

If you are hunting for the best possible sound in your U47 the EF14 solution cost nearly the same than a good working VF14.

I did several EF14 conversion for so called modified U47, were some people gutted the mic and put some funky electronic inside. The cost restoring the mic to original splendor on the top of what people already paid would have been insane.

The EF14 is nearly identical from a technical point of view and only made by Telefunken and RFT, both tubes share the same part aside the filament, but there are some major differences in how those parts were put together.
The VF14 was a special request tube and due to the high filament voltage, the same cathode shape, same material thickness was used, but the VF14 has different base material and a special insolating coating inside the cathode sleeve.
Also the mica waver that hold the electron system in place, had a special coating to prevent creep currents plate to grid, plus a few minor other details that would to be to technical to get into.

All those production measurements were employed to insure a tube that could deal with super high grid leaks as it is required in a condenser mic circuit. Last but not least the VF14 was equipped with a special super high impedance/resistance tube base, here again to reduce leak currents.

Anyway, there is still a possibility to use a EF14, but you have to special select them, and only one out of ten made by Telefunken, and one out of 20 of the RFT made will be suitable for a high impedance amplifier, including the cost for changing over the circuit, changing the power sup, etc. the cost is nearly the same than a good working VF14 replacement

Even those two tubes are nearly identical, and even with the reduced filament simulation, the final answer remains, "DOES THIS MODIFICATION SOUND THE SAME?"
Knowing that even missing the target by 0.1mm is still missing, the answer has to be NO.

The EF14 works in the circuit with same technical specs, the sound is as close as can be...
So the individual mic user has to decide is the EF14 solution is good enough for him/her...


Hope that helps,

Oliver Archut
www.tab-funkenwerk.com
 
a guy that was mentioned several times on this forum replaces dead vf14 with ef14 i think or uf 14 i'm not sure. andreas grosser is his name. i remember he said that the sound doesn't change noticably. you just have to work on the heater-circuit inside of the mic. the vf14 has around 50 volts heater voltage and so they could take this voltage out of the anode voltage with a simple divider and needed only one power-line to the mic. that's what i read i didn't check the schematics.
Try to get datasheets of all the tubes, compare them and post the results here!

chris
 
Line up 3 or 4 U47s with VF14's and they won't sound the same. The EF/UF14 mods will be as close as you get I would guess. In the old forum buttercup made one with an EF and reported good results....
 
Read Klaus's forum. Look for the Oliver posts. Some of the important parts are different if what I have read is true.
 
will do.

i called Oliver the other day about a transformer, REALLY nice guy. crazy smart on the subject.

expensive transformers though. :green:
 
As I understand it, the uf14 and vf14 are the same, except for the heater voltage. I believe that the Siemens badged version of the U47 had these as stock, instead of VF14. EF14 is very very similar, but construction is slightly different. I have EF14 in my beloved U48, and it pisses all over the U48 we have at work.(bizzare to find two together, huh?) which has a vf14. I suspect that there are many other factors at play than just the tube . . . . ! I had the mike for a while before having to change tubes, and i can honestly say that I didn't detect any perceptable difference after changing, except the lack of spurious bursts of noise! I found a box of Wermacht WWII EF14's a few years ago in Paris left over after the war. All of them were far to microphonic for my mic! I guess quality slipped severely later on in the war. They aren't noisey, just incredibly microphonic! if you move the mic, it sounds a bit like a spring reverb! Fortunately I have a superb one in the mic. Must get round to finding a spare . . . . .


Andy P
 
[quote author="strangeandbouncy"]I found a box of Wermacht WWII EF14's a few years ago in Paris left over after the war. All of them were far to microphonic for my mic! Andy P[/quote]
A less scruplious person would have flogged them one by one on ebay..
Good on you Andy...
 
I don't pretend to know enough technical stuff about these things but the
U47 clone I made with a kk47 capsule, EF14 and Sowter transformer sounded really good.
Hard times hit so I sold it on ebay to a lovely guy who puts it up against an M269, other expensive originals and says it's up there with all of them.
One of my main reasons for using the EF14 was to try and create something that looked similar to a U47 as well.
Oliver has suggested before that a 5840 can be used as well but obviously the sound is different.
I suppose that, as all the originals DO sound slightly different from each other that if we simply end up with a lovely sounding mic that is very usable and that we have fun making then we have achieved much.
 
One thing I haven't heard anyone address here is the fact that U47s ran at approximately 1/2 heater current. The U/V/E letter designates the spec current, U=100mA, V=50mA, E=470mA, I believe. The VF14 took 55-60V to draw 50mA, in the U47 it is provided with 36V and has a series resistor. I'm going to guess it runs at about half current. Possibly for good tube life? They do last quite some time in the wild.
Any attempt to duplicate the circuit with a sub in from a U/E tube might want to take this into consideration. I think it was on Steve Bench's site where I read something on the effect of heater starvation on distortion charachteristics. Running them cool could make quite a difference, and this too might be part of the magic.

Edit: Found it. It refers strictly to DHTs, but I have to wonder if you can't do the same thing with indirectly heated tubes.
http://members.aol.com/sbench102/dht.html
 
again underheating is in the microphone meta section in a number of threads.

Is is in the metals and the oxides
 
Yes.
My EF14 U47 used a heater voltage of 5.2v I think.
Once again, it sounds very nice.
It was Oliver who suggested it to me a long time ago
when he was explaining about the VF14/EF14 differences.
I seem to remember reading at Klaus's forum about Neumann
underheating the EC1000 in the M149 and that the EC1000 didn't
take kindly to it.
Big failure rate.
Some you can and some you cant.
 
again underheating is in the microphone meta section in a number of threads.

I will have a look, thanks. I keep forgetting most everything has been covered here already. :wink: I wish I had the time to read it all. Maybe I'll get through it eventually.

EC1000? I think they're using 6111WAs in there, at least I'm pretty sure that's what's in the one I have here, the 147 too. Might be a later/earlier revision? I think I might rather have that EC1000, as I've had to replace at least one of these 6111s inside of five years. It does see a lot of use, but c'mon, how long does a VF14 last in a U-47?
 

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