john12ax7

West Coast Fires
« on: September 12, 2020, 08:06:47 PM »
How is everyone holding up? Air quality is horrendous outside right now where I am.  The sky is all smoke and grey, blocking out the sun.  A block away from me is a voluntary evac zone so making some preparations just in case.  It's an interesting exercise in deciding what do you take when limited  to  what fits in your car.

2020 has been relentless.


crazydoc

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2020, 08:47:53 PM »
Not too bad here. Able to see the sun's disc on and off the last 2 days. My daughter in Oregon hasn't seen it for quite a while.
Luckily, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The secret of happiness is having low expectations.

pucho812

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2020, 10:19:34 PM »
if things continue I am debating if we will see any sun for the rest of the year.   Looks like some of the fires were arson some were by accident but all are bad.  Last weekend near my place we had the Sepulvida flood basin catch fire, less then a mile from me, luckily it got put out  quickly, took all day.  But yeah it's tough and I have been told calfire does not want to touch any fire on federal land, it would not surprise me if that turned out to be true and was ordered from up above.
Oh well just one more reason to recall newsom.

But as for how we are holding up,
Quote
we are holding our own
.   I use that phrase way too much these days which is sad.   For those that do not know, it was the last message sent out by captain Mcsorley  of  the Great Lakes  iron boat, the Edmund Fitzgerald  before it vanished off radar and sank to the bottom of Lake Superior.  It's one of complete optimism in a time of uncertainty and chaos.  Prior to the message the boat had a massive list to one side, was taking in water faster then it could pump it out  and ultimately was in bad shape.  It was  traveling with it's sister ship the author M Anderson  which had to slow down to keep up with the Fitzgerald and their problem.  The last communication went close to as follows
Anderson: oh and how are you making out with your problem?
Fitzgerald: We're hold our own.
 minutes later, the boat was  off radar and sunk. 
I kind of feel that is how things are going over all. But you gotta stay positive. 
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

iturnknobs

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2020, 09:54:57 AM »
I have been told calfire does not want to touch any fire on federal land, it would not surprise me if that turned out to be true and was ordered from up above.
Oh well just one more reason to recall newsom.


...or recall Trump who continually threatens to pull funding for schooling when discussions revolved around remote learning(WHILE LYING ABOUT THE EPIDEMIC)... or pull federal funding for cities which are "sanctuary cities"(and primarily the economic engines of our country). I can't imagine why the state of California isn't using their resources on Federal land. Maybe they're tired of all the winning.

Maybe this will help...
https://www.npr.org/2020/09/12/912301325/longtime-climate-science-denier-hired-at-noaa
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 09:58:55 AM by iturnknobs »
Election 2020.  For the people, not the money.

JohnRoberts

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2020, 10:05:52 AM »
Good luck with the wildfires, be safe. I have relatives in different parts of CA (one has good air, the other not).


JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

iturnknobs

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2020, 11:41:49 AM »
DJT(J stands for genius) is now pushing "forest management" as the problem causing the forest fires at the Nevada superspreader(disinformation rally)event last night.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/19/make-america-rake-again-finland-trump-forest-fire

“I was with the president of Finland and he said: ‘We have, much different, we are a forest nation.’ He called it a forest nation. And they spend a lot of time on raking and cleaning and doing things, and they don’t have any problem.”

We don't stand a chance with this clown leading the circus.
Election 2020.  For the people, not the money.

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2020, 12:11:02 PM »
It's an interesting exercise in deciding what do you take when limited  to  what fits in your car.
 

Absolutely horrific images coming from the west coast!

I lived in the Oakland hills during the 1991 firestorm and knew plenty of folks who lost their homes, one friend lost her mother. 

We evacuated and, besides driver's license, passport, bank cards etc., we took only the things that are irreplaceable such as paperwork and photos etc. 

Save those things and, most importantly,  yourselves.  Anything else can be replaced.   Take care man
Jeffrey Toobin: "This is the most embarrassing week ever."

Rudy Giuliani: "Hold my pants..."

scott2000

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2020, 01:41:24 PM »
Looks like some of the fires were arson

That's disturbing.... The thought crossed my mind if some riot pyros were created or some kids got addicted to the rush.  I had a friend when I was younger that loved to play with fire until he melted his tube socks down to his bones.....

I actually had an encounter maybe 6 or 7 years ago with a group of teens who were trying to set fire to the conservation I'm backed up on... We had a little 10acres or so burned right in the middle of our neighborhood a couple weeks prior to me catching them lighting a huge fire a couple of feet from the dry brush on what must have been the windiest day of the year .. I'd really have to bet it was intentional as they weren't from around here.....and it was crazy windy..... When I addressed them they started threatening me and my dog as they were taking off while I was on the phone with the Sheriff... Fire dept came and snuffed out the embers that were left ... I had caught them right when they lit it because it was late at night and I saw the initial flash from the ignition by chance..... Crazy.... It could've been real bad for sure.....

Stay safe :-\
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 01:58:48 PM by scott2000 »

pucho812

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2020, 07:59:06 PM »
DJT(J stands for genius) is now pushing "forest management" as the problem causing the forest fires at the Nevada superspreader(disinformation rally)event last night.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/19/make-america-rake-again-finland-trump-forest-fire

“I was with the president of Finland and he said: ‘We have, much different, we are a forest nation.’ He called it a forest nation. And they spend a lot of time on raking and cleaning and doing things, and they don’t have any problem.”

We don't stand a chance with this clown leading the circus.

California has refused to do any sort of land management for years now.  The powers that be  do not want to disturb the environment. The result has what we see now, small fires turn to large fires due to a bunch of dead growth.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

pucho812

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2020, 08:02:40 PM »
That's disturbing.... The thought crossed my mind if some riot pyros were created or some kids got addicted to the rush.  I had a friend when I was younger that loved to play with fire until he melted his tube socks down to his bones.....

I actually had an encounter maybe 6 or 7 years ago with a group of teens who were trying to set fire to the conservation I'm backed up on... We had a little 10acres or so burned right in the middle of our neighborhood a couple weeks prior to me catching them lighting a huge fire a couple of feet from the dry brush on what must have been the windiest day of the year .. I'd really have to bet it was intentional as they weren't from around here.....and it was crazy windy..... When I addressed them they started threatening me and my dog as they were taking off while I was on the phone with the Sheriff... Fire dept came and snuffed out the embers that were left ... I had caught them right when they lit it because it was late at night and I saw the initial flash from the ignition by chance..... Crazy.... It could've been real bad for sure.....

Stay safe :-\

Near my place there is a small flood basin. It was for when we were all orchards in my part of town and is now currently a park and surrounded by city. Last weekend someone set the basin on fire. This has been 4 times in the last 2 years.  the previous 3 times were due to the homeless staying there and having their cooking/campfires go awry. This 4th time though was arson or so they(police) said. Nothing like  seeing that less then a mile from home. took  the FD all day to put it out and he got some 10 acres burned. I can just imagine what it is like in the real heavy places.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 08:44:15 PM by pucho812 »
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.


iturnknobs

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2020, 11:23:30 PM »
California has refused to do any sort of land management for years now.  The powers that be  do not want to disturb the environment. The result has what we see now, small fires turn to large fires due to a bunch of dead growth.

Mighty bigly of you. Take a rake as you hike 2020.
Election 2020.  For the people, not the money.

pucho812

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2020, 11:33:17 PM »
Mighty bigly of you. Take a rake as you hike 2020.

I would but I would face a fine. I get it It’s easy to blame the party you don’t support, it’s easy to blame the one guy.  But at the end of it, he has had nothing to do with how California has continually made bad choices over the last two decades. 
I weep for all who are effected out here and I blame the folks who deserve it. May god have mercy on us all.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

boji

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2020, 11:51:11 PM »
Sorry to hear about air quality and the worry that must come from having to think about evacuation plans.   :-\

My best to you and your families.

ruairioflaherty

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2020, 02:37:53 AM »
California has refused to do any sort of land management for years now.  The powers that be  do not want to disturb the environment. The result has what we see now, small fires turn to large fires due to a bunch of dead growth.

Sorry to burden you with facts

From here - https://ucanr.edu/sites/forestry/California_forests/

"Of the approximately 33 million acres of forest in California, federal agencies (including the USDA Forest Service and USDI Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service) own and manage 19 million acres (57%). State and local agencies including CalFire, local open space, park and water districts and land trusts own another 3%. 40% of California's forestland is owned by families, Native American tribes, or companies. Industrial timber companies own 5 million acres (14%). 9 million acres are owned by individuals  with nearly 90% of these owners having less than 50 acres of forest land."

The bold is mine.

Recording Engineer

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2020, 04:17:53 AM »
With those facts, it certainly does seem like just soaking up and redistributing yet another team political talking point. It has obviously worked well.

Smoke here has been relentless. We got in the high 400s air quality index one day; 4Xs the usual bad smoke days we’ve been getting.

In WA, a friend of my aunt’s friend lost her 1-year old son and her pregnancy, plus both her and husband are 50% burned. Can be found in some news stories.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 04:32:42 AM by Recording Engineer »

scott2000

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2020, 07:43:31 AM »
State and local agencies including CalFire, local open space, park and water districts and land trusts own another 3%


Do the State and various regulatory agencies control land outside of what they own? I guess the same question could apply to power companies there too. I know my local power company controls a huge amount of land but I'm not sure of what the actual ownership looks like....


In WA, a friend of my aunt’s friend lost her 1-year old son and her pregnancy, plus both her and husband are 50% burned. Can be found in some news stories.

That's tragic...  :'(
« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 07:46:49 AM by scott2000 »

iturnknobs

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2020, 08:05:34 AM »
It’s easy to blame the party you don’t support, it’s easy to blame the one guy.  But at the end of it, he has had nothing to do with how California has continually made bad choices over the last two decades.
https://billmoyers.com/story/trumps-climate-change-record-is-a-threat-to-the-planet/
Trump has lifted more environmental protection regulations than any other president. His 1st appointment for head of the EPA was the man who was trying to dissolve it prior to 2016. I can blame one party in this case. My point is that Republicans push profit without regulations and Democrats push more environmental regulations and fines for those who pollute(for the most part). While stupidity and malice caused many of these current fires, they were able to spread uncontrollably because of weather conditions that most likely were aggravated by climate change as a result of humans. Half the humans want it to be better. The other half screams fake news. I stand with the half who wants to help and make sacrifices, not the selfish [email protected]@rds.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 08:49:59 AM by iturnknobs »
Election 2020.  For the people, not the money.

JohnRoberts

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2020, 10:30:40 AM »
Do the State and various regulatory agencies control land outside of what they own? I guess the same question could apply to power companies there too. I know my local power company controls a huge amount of land but I'm not sure of what the actual ownership looks like....
I don't have any non-public information but my brother's wife is associated with the PG&E board.  They have been blamed for past fires and sued. In tinderbox wildfire conditions like this they sometimes shut down power through wooded sections to prevent more possible fires. People don't like that either putting PG&E in a lose-lose situation. (CA is already suffering from marginal peak power generation due to green policies.)
Quote
That's tragic...  :'(
It's not surprising to hear politicians blame this on climate change (never let a crisis go to waste), or blame POTUS (? It's the season for that).

Sadly as long as they keep blaming something that isn't the root cause as an excuse to do nothing, they will not address and more importantly won't fix the underlying problem (proper forest management). 

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

pucho812

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2020, 12:04:30 PM »
Sorry to burden you with facts

From here - https://ucanr.edu/sites/forestry/California_forests/

"Of the approximately 33 million acres of forest in California, federal agencies (including the USDA Forest Service and USDI Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service) own and manage 19 million acres (57%). State and local agencies including CalFire, local open space, park and water districts and land trusts own another 3%. 40% of California's forestland is owned by families, Native American tribes, or companies. Industrial timber companies own 5 million acres (14%). 9 million acres are owned by individuals  with nearly 90% of these owners having less than 50 acres of forest land."

The bold is mine.

Not sure what facts you are burdening me with.  I am also not sure what you are trying to prove there.  My comment still stands that those in charge  do not wish to disturb the land over environmental concerns.  This is not new. Proper land management is necessary regardless of who owns it.

Also should I be concerned the  map you provided  is 10 years out of date?
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

Recording Engineer

Re: West Coast Fires
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2020, 12:12:30 PM »
It seems more like an individual governments issue and how well they enforce their fire-prevention regulations and ordinances.


 

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