SIXTYNINER
Well-known member
guitarmaker said:
hello and thanks for post
but why who have finished the x81 project don't post
the right infos for cleaning for ever the errors done by who made red pcbs?
6T9R
1081 -2009 REMIX project
- Thread starter SIXTYNINER
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
hello and thanks for post
but why who have finished the x81 project don't post
the right infos for cleaning for ever the errors done by who made red pcbs?
6T9R
guitarmaker
Well-known member
The only errors on the red pcbs that I remember were around one of the amp blocks. It's been a couple of years since I finished this so I don't remember exactly. The error was posted at the time. The real problem was with all the random documentation floating around. Lots of errors there. Just stick with the AMS manual docs and you're good. I did manage to get a readable copy of the schematic which the AMS docs don't really have (it's there but very hard to read). PM me if you need that.
Steve
Steve
Infernal_Death
Well-known member
SIXTYNINER said:
Sorry but i find this to be offensive. This project is one of the most complicated ones out there so it isn't that
surprising that there are some errors. Also there are some people who already did complete this project so it's
possible. All the info is out there. You just have to put in some work.
But seems to me like you want to do the usual "paint by numbers". Maybe you want to step up and redo all the
info / boms / overlays ? To set a good example for all the people who release "faulty projects" :
Also i am wondering what projects you have released that where flawless to be able to critize others people work
that they released for free and spend many hours ? :
Flo
tommypiper
Well-known member
What was the point of this thread?
Is there currently a 1081 build thread?
It's a daunting project and much-delayed by many of us as we slowly continue to collect the parts and info before launching into building it...
I'm currently looking for the transistors. ChuckD's old Mouser parts list is now obsolete. (There are a lot of obscure transistors in one channel.) What's the latest info on transistor substitutes?
PS: Which Frank were you referring to in Page 1 for the Rev.7? I don't see it on Kubi's site. Could someone post it please?
Is there currently a 1081 build thread?
It's a daunting project and much-delayed by many of us as we slowly continue to collect the parts and info before launching into building it...
I'm currently looking for the transistors. ChuckD's old Mouser parts list is now obsolete. (There are a lot of obscure transistors in one channel.)
What's the latest info on transistor substitutes?PS: Which Frank were you referring to in Page 1 for the Rev.7? I don't see it on Kubi's site. Could someone post it please?
SIXTYNINER
Well-known member
...ok was much time ago.. , but : "never say never " !
after checked various threads i grouped a number of info
and here some "update" for this very nice device (i.m.h.o):
About parts ,"Geoff" said that a variety of component types and value substitution was used at Neve
during production , depending also on what they had on hand . ....
About transistors some good guy have found replacements ,
like :
"nielsk"
I have been using, with excellent results:
BC184c = BC550
BC214kc = BC560
BC441 = 2n3053A
BC461 =2n2905A
Question: BD139 and BD140 can be a good replacement (with proper pinsout) ?
About Electrolytic capacitors :
in many vintage neve devices you can see Philips ,
from a post by "Family Hoof":
Axial Electrolytic - BC Components (formerly phillips) ASM 021. or use AML 183 and AHT 118 if you're worried about longetivity.
Question : in the 1081 and many other vintage Neve devices ,
some electrolytic capacitors are on the power supply path , some other on the audio path like 338,308 etc... ,
unfortunately no info about if Neve placed all "standard " or different type , in the different paths ,
also they can be all "audio type" ?
Polystyrene film capacitors :
from a post by "Family Hoof":
- Xicon from Mouser - Originals were styroflex (made by Siemens, now known as EPCOS) and had lower voltage rating.
Question : Are they all Polystyrene type ?
because in some image it's possible see that not all are the same type .,
a recent part list about would be so nice.
About the 6M8 / 4M7 "anticlick" resitors :
The ("recent") Ams Neve Manual say 4M7 , the Tommytones part list (and some guy have placed on ...) say 6M8 ,
both can be ok ?
Diodes:
There are good replacements for "bax13" and the "AA144" ?
For who have the "Tommytones docs" :
Check also values of resistors and value+polarity of the capacitors on the 338,308 etc..DOA ,
and on the mainboard too !!!
(various errors about)
also more info are still required like :
-Full correct part list
-Main pcb and 338,308,etc ..DOA correct parts layout
-Type of cable for internal eq->rotary switches wires
To "Frank" from nrgrecording.de : if you like and still have some docs/info that can help/give an hand ...
you are so welcome .
cheers
after checked various threads i grouped a number of info
and here some "update" for this very nice device (i.m.h.o):
About parts ,"Geoff" said that a variety of component types and value substitution was used at Neve
during production , depending also on what they had on hand . ....
About transistors some good guy have found replacements ,
like :
"nielsk"
I have been using, with excellent results:
BC184c = BC550
BC214kc = BC560
BC441 = 2n3053A
BC461 =2n2905A
Question: BD139 and BD140 can be a good replacement (with proper pinsout) ?
About Electrolytic capacitors :
in many vintage neve devices you can see Philips ,
from a post by "Family Hoof":
Axial Electrolytic - BC Components (formerly phillips) ASM 021. or use AML 183 and AHT 118 if you're worried about longetivity.
Question : in the 1081 and many other vintage Neve devices ,
some electrolytic capacitors are on the power supply path , some other on the audio path like 338,308 etc... ,
unfortunately no info about if Neve placed all "standard " or different type , in the different paths ,
also they can be all "audio type" ?
Polystyrene film capacitors :
from a post by "Family Hoof":
- Xicon from Mouser - Originals were styroflex (made by Siemens, now known as EPCOS) and had lower voltage rating.
Question : Are they all Polystyrene type ?
because in some image it's possible see that not all are the same type .,
a recent part list about would be so nice.
About the 6M8 / 4M7 "anticlick" resitors :
The ("recent") Ams Neve Manual say 4M7 , the Tommytones part list (and some guy have placed on ...) say 6M8 ,
both can be ok ?
Diodes:
There are good replacements for "bax13" and the "AA144" ?
For who have the "Tommytones docs" :
Check also values of resistors and value+polarity of the capacitors on the 338,308 etc..DOA ,
and on the mainboard too !!!
(various errors about)
also more info are still required like :
-Full correct part list
-Main pcb and 338,308,etc ..DOA correct parts layout
-Type of cable for internal eq->rotary switches wires
To "Frank" from nrgrecording.de : if you like and still have some docs/info that can help/give an hand ...
you are so welcome .
cheers
chefducuisine
Well-known member
I bought two of Tommytones PCB kits from a member from Sweden about a year ago in the black market.
Four months ago I started populating the boards. Due to some time constrains I could not get back to them the last two months.
This is how they look actually:
http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?pid=5510
http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?pid=5509
The Op-Amps are already tested and confirmed working...
@ 69er:
For wiring use AWG22 in multiple colors (important).
On the Gain switch you will need shielded cable. Use some RG316 here.
Get the AMS 1081 Technical Manual Issue 3 and ignore the documentation from Tommy-tones. Also ignore the print on top of the PCB - use the drawing in the AMS doc instead.
For Transistors use these replacements:
BC184c = BC550C
BC214kc = BC560C
BC441 = 2n3053 (can be the Type 'A' but the ones without suffix are OK for the 340)
BC461 =2n2905 (can be the Type 'A' but the ones without suffix are OK for the 340)
I never tested BD139 and BD140 in this circuit...
There is no need to have Philips or BC capacitors in their Neve clones - there are better ones available and the well known service guys around also use different brands when they do their repair work... I tested BCs against Panasonic and Nichicon and could not hear a difference. As you can see from the pictures I use radial capacitors and bend the legs to fit the PCBs. Make sure you get 105°C ones, preferably low ESR type (Panasonic FC & FR are the ones I use typically). Some of the values of electrolytic are not standard anymore use the next higher value (e.g. use 220uF instead of 180uF).
Do not use audio type (bipolar) electrolytic capacitors in a Neve circuit - this would be totally of topic!
All other types (tantal or styroflex) are marked in the AMS Issue3 document.
As a rule for Neve circuits - whenever u see a 22uF capacitor use a tantal one
With all other capacitors in the circuits you should follow the documentation. Tantals, MKS and polystyrene or styroflex do matter as they have an impact on the sound. Most of them are associated to the EQ section anyway - Styroflex for the high band is an absolute must!!! Check my picture above - Styroflex are the silver ones between the red Wimas
Don't worry on the anti-click resistors. Everything bigger than 4M7 is OK. On some schematics Neve even uses 10M.
In the end they are just for what has been said: anti-click when turning the knob ;D
I have Franks latest version of his drawings (v8) for review of the parts marked with a question mark.
I am also in contact with him for the front panel & case. I plan to have a 1U 19" Box made for each channel, re-assembling the original FP-layout of the original... Power Supply will be external. But this will only happen when I have the first channel working (see above picture - I test the layout with a printed layout and an aluminium bracket I made at home).
I already built and repaired a lot of Neve stuff. Some of my builds can be seen in my gallery.
The most complicated one was certainly a 2254 based on the Wonderland PCB set - the wiring alone was horrible.
The 1081 is not as complicated as a 2254.
However, you should have some experience in more complex builds and use the mentioned Iss. 3 documentation!
It is just the amount of wiring involved in this built that takes some time if done properly.
BTW: Read this before you start building anything Neve - related:
http://auroraaudio.net/ask-geoff/neve-2/tech-tips While you are on the site, also have a look to Geoff's Forum
http://www.technicalaudio.com/reading/neve1081/1081.html
Four months ago I started populating the boards. Due to some time constrains I could not get back to them the last two months.
This is how they look actually:
http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?pid=5510
http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?pid=5509
The Op-Amps are already tested and confirmed working...
@ 69er:
For wiring use AWG22 in multiple colors (important).
On the Gain switch you will need shielded cable. Use some RG316 here.
Get the AMS 1081 Technical Manual Issue 3 and ignore the documentation from Tommy-tones. Also ignore the print on top of the PCB - use the drawing in the AMS doc instead.
For Transistors use these replacements:
BC184c = BC550C
BC214kc = BC560C
BC441 = 2n3053 (can be the Type 'A' but the ones without suffix are OK for the 340)
BC461 =2n2905 (can be the Type 'A' but the ones without suffix are OK for the 340)
I never tested BD139 and BD140 in this circuit...
There is no need to have Philips or BC capacitors in their Neve clones - there are better ones available and the well known service guys around also use different brands when they do their repair work... I tested BCs against Panasonic and Nichicon and could not hear a difference. As you can see from the pictures I use radial capacitors and bend the legs to fit the PCBs. Make sure you get 105°C ones, preferably low ESR type (Panasonic FC & FR are the ones I use typically). Some of the values of electrolytic are not standard anymore use the next higher value (e.g. use 220uF instead of 180uF).
Do not use audio type (bipolar) electrolytic capacitors in a Neve circuit - this would be totally of topic!
All other types (tantal or styroflex) are marked in the AMS Issue3 document.
As a rule for Neve circuits - whenever u see a 22uF capacitor use a tantal one
With all other capacitors in the circuits you should follow the documentation. Tantals, MKS and polystyrene or styroflex do matter as they have an impact on the sound. Most of them are associated to the EQ section anyway - Styroflex for the high band is an absolute must!!! Check my picture above - Styroflex are the silver ones between the red Wimas
Don't worry on the anti-click resistors. Everything bigger than 4M7 is OK. On some schematics Neve even uses 10M.
In the end they are just for what has been said: anti-click when turning the knob ;D
I have Franks latest version of his drawings (v8) for review of the parts marked with a question mark.
I am also in contact with him for the front panel & case. I plan to have a 1U 19" Box made for each channel, re-assembling the original FP-layout of the original... Power Supply will be external. But this will only happen when I have the first channel working (see above picture - I test the layout with a printed layout and an aluminium bracket I made at home).
I already built and repaired a lot of Neve stuff. Some of my builds can be seen in my gallery.
The most complicated one was certainly a 2254 based on the Wonderland PCB set - the wiring alone was horrible.
The 1081 is not as complicated as a 2254.
However, you should have some experience in more complex builds and use the mentioned Iss. 3 documentation!
It is just the amount of wiring involved in this built that takes some time if done properly.
BTW: Read this before you start building anything Neve - related:
http://auroraaudio.net/ask-geoff/neve-2/tech-tips While you are on the site, also have a look to Geoff's Forum
http://www.technicalaudio.com/reading/neve1081/1081.html
SIXTYNINER
Well-known member
chefducuisine said:
thanks for the nice infos !
about issue 3 manual it is possible a link for get it (sorry but at Ams Neve only issue 4 , less of all schemes and info... :'( )
about electrolytic caps, in the "Frank" V8 pdf some are indicated as audio (check attached)
about rotary switches (Elma 24 positions apart) have you a source for get them ?
more thanks
chefducuisine
Well-known member
This will answer most of your questions:
http://www.musictoolz.pl/pliki/instrukcja-obslugi-250.pdf
- As said before: No audiograde lytics in a Neve built... ;D
All rotary switches are available from Colin as a complete set:
http://www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/Concentric_Switches.html
AML-17-025 - Rotary Switch Kit; 1081
The Elma only:
http://www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/Rotary_Switches.html
You want the EL-03-001 - Rotary Switch; 24 way, 1 pole, 3 gang (04-3133)
In any case don't forget to order the stop-pin
EL-03-015 - End Stop Pins for 04 series switches (10 Pack)
The pushbuttons are a different story - I ordered mine via eBay from Hong-Kong.
http://www.musictoolz.pl/pliki/instrukcja-obslugi-250.pdf
- As said before: No audiograde lytics in a Neve built... ;D
All rotary switches are available from Colin as a complete set:
http://www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/Concentric_Switches.html
AML-17-025 - Rotary Switch Kit; 1081
The Elma only:
http://www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/Rotary_Switches.html
You want the EL-03-001 - Rotary Switch; 24 way, 1 pole, 3 gang (04-3133)
In any case don't forget to order the stop-pin
EL-03-015 - End Stop Pins for 04 series switches (10 Pack)
The pushbuttons are a different story - I ordered mine via eBay from Hong-Kong.
chefducuisine said:
You are right about the electro caps on the original vintage Neve devices...... ,
seen also that posted around by Geoff T.
regarding Neve parts "storage" ,
but as probably you know,
on the "Igor" 2254 , 33609,ba283 .... diy projects ,
audio grade electrolytic caps are placed on the audio paths ,
r.
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