10KHZ Ground Noise in Studio

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Have you tried turning all the lights completely off?
I once encountered this problem in a studio, took a while to find the culprit:
A compact florescent bulb outside the back door...
Outside noise can get in on the power line, that Furman is not going to stop much... you can try running enough of the studio to test for the noise on a UPS diss-connected from the mains to rule out noise on the mains.
 
Jim Brown is the go-to noise & interference expert. Some of his papers have sections on this problem.

"Power and Grounding For Audio and Audio/Video Systems -- A White Paper for the Real World"
http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/SurgeXPowerGround.pdf

"RF Interference in Audio Systems" Power point
http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/AES-RFI-SF08.pdf

"RFI, Ferrites, and Common Mode Chokes For Hams"
http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf

About 50 more good Jim Brown papers:
http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/publish.htm
 
@Whoops I’m having this exact same issue, I mean exactly. Industrial area, the problem is worse some days than others. I’ve tried everything. Please tell me you figured it out at your place!!

Hi mate,
the problem was never solved, I was never able to find the cause neither a solution, I just tried to minimize it as much as I could.
Many indie records were made at that place, some of them pretty amazing records.

Basically in all the Albums I recorded or Mixed from that studio I had to use a lot the X-Noise plugin from waves in many instruments. Sometime also a very tight 10khz notch filter eq in some tracks.
These 2 processes removed the noise enough for it to not be a problem in the end, but I basically just treated the symptoms of the disease and not the cause of it.

That place was really important for a lot of Indie bands and artists from Lisbon,
it belonged to an Indie label and we all were kind of a family and in the same social circles, it was a mythical place for us.
Unfortunately the real estate pressure in Lisbon skyrocketed in the last 10 years, and the warehouse where the studio was was demolished 2 years ago so the owners can build luxury apartments.

Maybe the 10khz noise will still haunt the rich people that will live there in the future.
 
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Thank you,
thats great, gonna have a good read!

Hi mate,
the problem was never solved, I was never able to find the cause neither a solution, I just tried to minimize it as much as I could.
Many indie records were made at that place, some of them pretty amazing records.

Basically in all the Albums I recorded or Mixed from that studio I had to use a lot the X-Noise plugin from waves in many instruments. Sometime also a very tight 10khz notch filter eq in some tracks.
These 2 processes removed the noise enough for it to not be a problem in the end, but I basically just treated the symptoms of the disease and not the cause of it.

That place was really important for a lot of Indie bands and artists from Lisbon,
it belonged to an Indie label and we all where kind of a family and in the same social circles, it was a mythical place for us.
Unfortunately the real estate pressure in Lisbon skyrocketed in the last 10 years, and the warehouse where the studio was was demolished 2 years ago so the owners can build luxury apartments.

Maybe the 10khz noise will still haunt the rich people that will live there in the future.
Oh no! I read in one of the documents mentioned in this thread about the problems with three phase power. I have “high leg” delta here and am hoping switching to single phase may fix the issue. Was the warehouse wired with three phase power?
 
If you are in an industrial area there could be some industrial machinery making noise at 10kHz (like a huge heater using a crude switching supply).

I am not aware of any reason why 3 phase power would suffer HF noise, further your studio gear is probably only running off one phase.

Obvious suspects mains power filter, to stop it from coming in through the line cord. If its coming in through the air, it may be harder to eliminate than its worth.

JR
 
If you are in an industrial area there could be some industrial machinery making noise at 10kHz (like a huge heater using a crude switching supply).

I am not aware of any reason why 3 phase power would suffer HF noise, further your studio gear is probably only running off one phase.

Obvious suspects mains power filter, to stop it from coming in through the line cord. If its coming in through the air, it may be harder to eliminate than its worth.

JR
I read in the docs mentioned here that three phase can carry noise on the shared neutral between facilities. I’m not using the high leg of my delta connection. That’s leaving me with two legs that are 120 degrees out of phase and completely unbalanced when you consider the unused third leg. Hoping changing over to single phase from the street will help.
 
Was the warehouse wired with three phase power?

I don't remember mate, I'm sorry.

Something highly relevant that I don't remember if I posted here was that the Inter-Cities train passed just outside the warehouse back wall, so there was train tracks and the trains electrical power cables right next to it.
Thinking about it know, maybe there was noise induction from the train electrical lines...

If we were recording soft instruments we had to stop the take when the train passed by, because the acoustic noise from the train would reach the microphones, also there was vibration, everyone that recorded there knew about this and we all got used to work around the situation..
Bands were not paying studio time there because they were from the indie label that owned the studio, so doing a new take because of the train was acceptable
 
@Whoops I’m having this exact same issue, I mean exactly. Industrial area, the problem is worse some days than others. I’ve tried everything. Please tell me you figured it out at your place!!
Some troubleshooting tips:

First, see if you can put together a means of quantitatively measuring the 10k noise, preferably one that has a frequency plot like an FFT analyzer. A battery powered laptop with a USB mic pre and FFT analyzer software should do it. You want to be able to see if the noise increases or decreases as you interact with the environment.

Next, prove to yourself that your analyzer setup is clean. Take the rig outside away from any source of interference and check that it has a low, clean noise floor with no indication of any 10k. You want to make sure your meter is seeing the noise in the studio and not its own noise.

Next, bring the analyzer into the studio, put a shorting plug on the analyzer mic input, then check the noise floor. It should be clean if the USB interface is well shielded.

Next, substitute a home-brew measurement probe for the shorting plug:

When searching for electric fields, a few feet of wire connected to Pin 2 of the mic input XLR with Pins 2 and 3 shorted together will do it. If your USB interface has an instrument input, you might try that since it will have a much higher input impedance than the mic input, and it won't load your probe as much. The wire would connect to the phone plug Tip, with Ring and Shield shorted. You may need to crank up the preamp gain. This "E field" probe is not direction sensitive, but it is very proximity sensitive, so if the 10k source is localized, this may help find it.

When searching for magnetic fields, use a "loop antenna" made by winding a few dozen turns of insulated wire around a suitable form. You can use anything nonmetallic as a coil form, but not too small, since you want quite a bit of loop area. I found that an empty gift wrap ribbon bobbin works well. Use a short length of mic cable to connect the two ends of the coil to Pins 2 and 3 of the XLR respectively, with Pin 1 connected to Pin 3. The more loop area and the more turns, the more sensitive the probe is; you might want to try some variations. This kind of "B field" probe is directional, so your FFT reading should change as you reorient the loop.

The most powerful debugging technique is to start turning things on and off, seeing if the noise increases or decreases in response. Unfortunately, if the noise source is in the surrounding environment, that might not be possible. Then you will need to "hunt" the source with your analyzer and probes.

If the noise is coming in on the AC power wiring, your E field probe should detect it when it is placed alongside a (nonmetallic) power cord that is plugged into the wall. The stray capacitance between the line cord and your probe will couple the noise energy into the analyzer. This kind of interference is known as "conducted interference" and is often very difficult to deal with, since it could be coming from anywhere in the upstream power distribution system.

The other kind is "radiated interference" where the source is broadcasting (intentionally or not) via some kind of antenna, and the wiring in your studio is receiving it. It is possible that this interference is being transmitted at some much higher frequency radio frequency (RF) and is being "demodulated" down to 10k by your studio gear. To find that, you will need a directional antenna and some means to measure the RF energy, like an RF spectrum analyzer. Your local ham radio club might be able to help you with that.

Good luck, and happy hunting!
 
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Since we don't know the frequency of the offending source, we'd want an antenna that has a very wide frequency range. There are special purpose antennas just for this, used for testing Radiated Emissions EMI certification:

https://www.ets-lindgren.com/datasheet/antennas/biconilogs/4012/401202

Those Pringle antennas are tuned to the 2.4 GHz WiFi band, so even though they are directional, they would probably miss the source of the 10k noise unless it is riding on a 2.4 GHz carrier.
 
I often tell the story of a similar issue in a studio where I serviced their gear...turned out to be a laptop power supply that had gone bad, it still powered the laptop just fine but the SMPS brick was somehow kicking noise back thru the AC lines. A new quality supply solved the issue.
The troubleshooting steps require unplugging everything in the studio, technically most gear with linear supplies should be fine but I always recommend unplugging everything.
Then utilizing some sort of device to monitor what's happening(I use a small Mackie mixer) thru headphones only, the monitor device should be connected to the patch bay if there is one and then plug in every piece of gear one by one.
Of course if the monitoring device is picking up the noise before plugging in any other gear then you should investigate power throughout the facility if the service is shared by neighbors.

Another issue to consider is how the mains ac earth(ground) is distributed...most commercial installs in the US use the conduit to supply earth which means that if any contacts are loose or corroded it affects everything down the line and a dedicated copper line(s) is always better than conduit.

I have used a guitar amp with a wand which is a small copper tube(12" long or so) insulated with heat shrink and the + wire sticking out the end about a 1/4" using coax and terminated to a 1/4" plug with some success to "sniff" out stray noises and sometimes rf sources(when you get lucky).

Good luck
 
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