~250kHz pings from neve 1073 type line output stage

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Sorry for adding unintentional fog.. 'long' in scare quotes meaning not very long by human standards (about 5ms by my previous reckoning) but long compared to the short pulse/ring itself.

I forget how long I've had the unit. Probably got it (new) around 2010.
 
Couldn’t hurt to recap it then - electrolytics do dry out but a cap running close to tolerance voltage wise dries out even faster.
sure...just one more thing to do! Have I got enough in stock or is there a further ordering delay? etc.etc. I've not long ago finished fully recapping a dbx unit, after which I didn't feel like doing another recap job in a hurry :) The actual powered-up hours of the GA pre-73 is low compared to the years I've had it.

Though as I'm going to be dismantling it again now anyway, my resistance is reduced...
 
Thanks as usual for the input/help with my golden age saga.

Having now had a clear moment to investigate this behaviour with more tests it is evidently not a component fault in any of the main audio circuitry. The problem is in the PSU even though the spike signal was not detected on the supply rails in the audio board.

I picked up the same spike/rings at the line out socket, across the balanced output pins (xlr 2 & 3), with all the audio circuitry disconnected. That means with no O/P xformer connected to the O/P socket, input and output sockets just run to connectors to the audio board and these are all disconnected. The 24V and 48V power connectors to the audio board are also disconnected.

The PSU circuit is always on when the plug from the AC pwr xformer is in, regardless of whether or not the front panel on/off switch is pressed (crap + I noticed that the phantom switch applies 48V even if the power switch and indicator light are off!). The input and output sockets are all mounted on the same physical board assembly as the PSU. The spikes only occur when AC power is connected to the unit (not entirely surprising, but...)

When isolated like this the only (non-parasitic) connection from the PSU to the output socket balanced output pins 2&3 is via the circuit ground, which only connects to the hot and cold pins via two small nominally equal value decoupling caps (as well as directly to shield pin1). So some imbalance between the impedance to ground capacity as seen by the scope versus that felt by the circuit must be at work here for anything from the PSU to appear on the scope.

I found I could pick up the spike/ring signal just holding a scope probe against the power cable before it enters the unit. After expending some braincells suspecting spikey interference coming in along the cable I started doing some more capacitive probing around the PSU circuit components. The signal increases to a maximum around one particular capacitor located in the early stages of the PSU circuit. (I haven't removed the board to trace out the circuit yet.)

I now measure the pulses as occurring at bang on 10ms apart (not 5ms, sorry, I must have misread the scope previously) which corresponds with the zero crossing frequency of the 50Hz power input.

So, diodes opening/clanging shut into a failing reservoir capacitor? There is an inductor in the circuit somewhere too. Interesting that the phenomenon is seen back down the cable between the rectifier diodes and the power transformer. Is it actually some ringing on the power transformer side?

I also noticed the magnitude of the spike/ring gets a fair bit larger when the PSU is under load supplying the audio board. Larger amounts of charge rushing into the reservoir.

The cap is currently a prime suspect, but I'm also wondering if the design of the board is maybe not so good regarding the paths of ground currents, which will take a bit more pencil-chewing. Maybe this behaviour was there all along - this is the first time I've had a scope on it.

Anyway I'll get the psu board out, trace out the circuit and replace the suspect cap for a start.
 
The phantom takes ages to die away - plug in a mic and see if it drops then.
Good advice, but sadly it's not that.

I know they were aiming to keep the costs down on this unit, but you'd think they could have stretched to a double pole power switch!

(Actually it is a double pole switch but they use up one pole to switch the power-on LED rather than use it to also interrupt the 48V supply - I think I might modify that!)
 
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Does the power switch not switch off the mains?

Nope. That's the way it is for things with external power supplies of course.

Here we a have a hybrid solution with the mains pwr tx located externally supplying ~24VAC to the unit and the rest of the PSU inside the case.

The front panel power switch just interrupts the 24VDC supply from the PSU to the audio circuit. OK this does stop most of the power consumption and the PSU just idles, but why they didn't cut the phantom power... The power switch design is frankly hilarious. They wasted one pole of the power switch - which they could have used for the 48V supply - to control the power-on indicator LED which would have gone off anyway! 🤣
I suspect a deadline / revision cost avoidance... This is a mk-1, maybe they sorted this out in later versions.
 
Seems very strange. Does your unit also use the combo XLR/Jack Mic input socket? The Phantom goes to the Jack pins if you do, (unlike the Line input) and could cause some damage to devices plugged into the Jack portion of the Combo connector. 😩
 
Seems very strange. Does your unit also use the combo XLR/Jack Mic input socket? The Phantom goes to the Jack pins if you do, (unlike the Line input) and could cause some damage to devices plugged into the Jack portion of the Combo connector. 😩
Yup - indeed! I was aware of it this though and have a TRS patchbay section for inputs that may need to have their phantom power turned off before plugging/unplugging... What I hadn't expected though was that the phantom power would be on even if the front panel power switch was off!
 
So the periodic spike/ring problem is now (sufficiently) fixed.

It was in the end not a component failure but was due to not-great design, and/or perhaps financial implementation.

I was getting increasingly suspicious about the grounding and pwr tx/rectifier design because the phenomenon really relies on parasitics/imbalances - there was after all no actual implemented 'circuit' left to explain how it was appearing on the output socket/scope probe after everything else had been disconnected.

It was in the end 'switching noise' / ringing at the pwr tx<=>rectifier diodes spilling all over the place.

After isolating the main problem to the 24V supply circuit (higher current) - not the phantom 48V supply (low current) - then after replacing the key input stage caps and rectifier diodes without seeing any change in the behaviour I replaced the 1N4007 diodes with faster UF4007. This significantly reduced the magnitude of the spike/ring.

Some periodic ring is still detectable but is much less spikey and at a much lower level, so I think it is now liveable-with.

(more details, pics etc. available if interested)

Hopefully I can get back to tweaking my zobels again now.
 
How is the PSU grounded to the case?
Just at one point, and the audio circuit board uses the case as the ground connection. No separate parallel power ground connections. Though the audio board connects to the case at more than one bolt-down point.
 

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