6072 valves,What difference black/grey plate?

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nelly

Active member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
25
Trying to buy a valve for elam build,
I've seen Vintage GE NOS 6072 in black or grey back plates !  Can anyone tell me what is the difference ?
OK....Blacks are twice price.....and so I presume higher quality?

Do they sound different ?
Cant find anything on the subject.

Told RCA  6072 sounds better even, anyone heard both ?

Thanx Nelly
 
To the best of my knowledge, almost all GE 6072s had black plates. There may be one or two exceptions to this (eg there appear to be some made in the final week or so of 1955) where they used grey plates. I can only speculate that they ran out of the material they normally used for the 5-star tubes and had to go with the standard plate material. All other GE 5-stars, JG/JANs, and 6072s produced by GE and rebranded for other companies had the black long plates. If it was made by GE and had a grey plate, then it was probably a shorter plate and labelled 12AY7. Likewise, if you see a grey plate tube labelled 6072 or 6072A, then it's extremely unlikely that it was manufactured by GE. A lot of the auctions you see out there are actually for GE 12AY7s, but they include 6072 in the title or description because they are assumed to be equivalent.

Some RCA 6072s were actually GEs that were rebranded. Others have shorter grey plates and don't look much different than a 12AY7. Pretty much every newly made "6072" looks like a 12AY7.

As for why they went with the black plates for the 6072s, I can only assume that it contributed to lowering the noise level and/or prolonging the life of the tube. But I'm really not sure, and without having one of those mystery late 1955 tubes one can't really make an accurate comparison since there are other features that would also have an impact on the sound and longevity of the tube. There's the aforementioned length of the plate, the addition of a third mica plate (at least until 1963; the disappearance roughly coincides with the switch to calling them 6072A), and the addition of vertical support rods between the plates from 1959.
 
I was told by the very, very knowledgeable older fellow I buy tubes from that the black coating is carbon that was added to aid in heat dissipation.

I also understand that longer plates are usually more microphonic than shorter plates.

I have first hand experience with GE 5 Star and RCA Command 6072A. The GE is much more hi fi and clear/open sounding.

Tubes are made mostly by hand, so there is a pretty wide range of tolerances. So the manufacturers tested tubes for noise and microphonics and graded them. The military was the largest and best funded customers for tube makers worldwide, so they catered to that customer. Any tube with a 4 digit number is the "military grade" selected tube. 12AY7 is the ordinary version.  6072 is the military version.  This is why on Fender amps, V1 is specfied as 7025 instead of 12AX7, they wanted a low noise and microphonics tube first in line. Then the best of the best were sold as 5 Star (GE) and Command Series (RCA). The lowest noise, lowest microphonics. The price goes up as quality goes up, too. Thus the use in microphones. Be aware getting a 5 Star will not guarantee it is microphone grade. My experience is about one in three are microphone grade. Let the tube burn for 72 hours straight before making noise and microphonics determinations.

Also, the difference between 6072 and 6072A is improved filament reliability.
 
"I found some Mullard British military 12AT7 tubes (CV4024) that I use with Tim Campbells capsule in the c12 circuit and it's great."

I came across this thread, seems they are easier to find in UK...and cheaper!!

Does anyone know about these valves?            (For 251 PTP build )  or would you just use a GE 5 star?

Yours curiously
Nelly
 
Thanks. Yes, I know the tube and AFAIK this particular Mullard is nice, reliable and of constant quality. Got some myself.
Not too rare and not too expensive, either. Well, as long as we don't blow the whistle too much.  ;)
But I was hoping to hear about that cheap address in the UK.

Ge 5 star is nice, too, but the ones on the bay etc. can be leftovers from muliple earlier cherrypicking rounds.
So buy from very reputable sellers and be prepared to pay the price.
 
nelly said:
"I found some Mullard British military 12AT7 tubes (CV4024) that I use with Tim Campbells capsule in the c12 circuit and it's great."

I came across this thread, seems they are easier to find in UK...and cheaper!!

Does anyone know about these valves?            (For 251 PTP build )  or would you just use a GE 5 star?

Yours curiously
Nelly

I prefer also those Mullards in my builds, but the midrange will be different.(more agressive)

Vox and sax sample:
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/82b9hkr1wper2rr/blues_no_eq.mp3
 

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I forgot to mention the British mil spec tubes, thanks for reminding me about those. The Mullard tube used in Lucas CS-1 sounds awesome. I would expect the Mullard to tame a bit of the sometimes fizzy highs one gets with the GE 6072A 5 Star. An excellent idea. I'll be getting some of those CV4024's to check out.
 
The BBC specified the Brimar type 6060 (CV4024) for use in low level 1st stages of pre and line amplifiers due to it being less microphonic than the type CV455 or regular 12AT7.    They mention a 90% yield for quiet valves versus a 40% yield for other 12AT7 types.


Edit:  Attached is a BBC monograph that mentions the selection.
 

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my experience about 5 stars 6072a :  it's more and more harder to pick some quiet ones at that time !
i always buy batch of 10 (for mic repair and build) and sadly, more or less 20% are perfectly usable and stable in microphones...
i'm afraid that it will quickly become a rarity like vf14 and ac701k...
 
granger.frederic said:
my experience about 5 stars 6072a :  it's more and more harder to pick some quiet ones at that time !
i always buy batch of 10 (for mic repair and build) and sadly, more or less 20% are perfectly usable and stable in microphones...
i'm afraid that it will quickly become a rarity like vf14 and ac701k...

The dregs.

Alas.
 
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