AKG C12 / Siemens SM204 help needed

[panman]

Here is a pic from Hiller CT 14/1. It was used in both M159 and 160.
I have posted pics from this trafo a couple of times on other forums asking if it is the same as T14/1, but nobody ever bothered/was able to confirm. It has the same measures. The ratio is 10/1.  The resistances match within limits with the original haufe T14/1 values that In76d posted previously in the T14/1 thread.  But this trafo was made before Haufe made theirs and this was made by Hiller. Oliver also at some point wrote, that Telefunken made the T14/1 too. Well, he cannot be bothered anymore about that. My Telefunken M221 has a trafo like that too. I somehow believe, that the design came from NWDR Zentraltechnik, like so many other legendary gear. Hiller M58,M59 and M60 were creations of Zentraltechnik and were licensed to be made by Hiller. Hiller M159 and M160 were Hiller`s own creations.
More about Hiller mics here: http://prorecordingworkshop.lefora.com/topic/19405979/7-G-ohms-gridresistors-of-Hiller-tubes-in-Hiller-mics?page=1#.V2v_q9SLTBQ

 

[micaddict]

The ratio is 10/1.

Even better suited to a 12AT7/6201 than a 12AY7/6072 maybe?

 

[ln76d]

Some Philips (not remeber exact model) also made by shoeps, like telefunken, had this trafo.

 

[panman]

Some Philips (not remeber exact model) also made by shoeps, like telefunken, had this trafo.

I`m afraid this is not true. It is a misunderstanding in this thread: http://repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,1345.msg7123.html#msg7123

The mic is Philips EL6052/Schoeps CM61. The poster says there is T14/1 written on the trafo, but if you look at the pics he posted it does not say but T 44/1.  It is a bit unclear though, but see for yourself.  The trafo in the pics is longer and larger.
Here the pics:


Here are the pics that do not show in the thread anymore:

 

[panman]

second pic

 

[panman]

and another still.

 

[ln76d]

Also no luck with T14 in C12 prototype
Chronicle says only about 2148 and 3044 made by Henry as also most known T14/1 by Haufe.
Even in C1, where AKG used MSC2 tube (made by Hiller) transformer was made by Henry.

 

[ln76d]

For the Philips it's not the web source  - I saw with my own eyes in dissasambeled microphone many years ago, but in that time i had no option to compare it to T14/1. It wasn't that big.

 

[panman]

Well, though:  "I saw with my own eyes many years ago" is not very convincing, it is by all means possible that what you saw was a T14/1. After all, Hillers were around and Telefunken(actually schoeps) M221 the first badge has a trafo looking like T14/1 and having the same dimensions as T14/1.And if any doubt, I have this mic and have posted pics from that trafo elsewhere. Maybe I`ll find them later.

 

[ln76d]

You know Esa - i'm not here to convince anyone
Believe or not - my "philips observation" doesn't matter for the whole topic anyway
Always could be possibility that some owner during the years had changed transformer.

 

[Bonnie1]

Hi In76d,
I'm not sure what exactly you are referring to,
"whole world original laminations" of tab funkwerk transformers and their T14 seems to be another product which no one can proved  is it at all close to the original - if original ever exist ( i also doubt).

Did Oliver ever claim this? Not to my knowledge and it’s not on the tab-funkenwerk website. 

The late Oliver Archut had invaluable historical knowledge retained in his extraordinary active memory of the finest German and Austrian studio electronics developed in the last 100 years.  Many Engineers, Producers and Technician’s looked upon Oliver as an International Treasure.  Because 99% of the time he would provide the proper solution to whatever technical problem existed and was happy to share the wealth of knowledge. There was no need for Oliver to behave in a deceptive manner! 
Is this what you are suggesting?  Or did I read it wrong?

If there was only one field that Oliver was highly specialized in.... it was transformer design...... and of course “real man wieners” Bratwurst.

I apologize if I have offended anyone, it is clearly not my intention.
Please continue with thread AKG C12 / Siemens SM204

 

[ln76d]

Hello Bonnie,

first what i would like to say - please don't read my words as something against Oliver or his work.
You could get the impression that it's so easy to commenting Oliver work or products - NO! Now is really harder...
I really admire Oliver contribution to the diy world, valuable informations and it was always a pleasure to read his advices.
Many great ideas, schematics and from what i could only observed - he was really kind man.
I quote myself (yes, looks stupid) from another topic:

"Dear Oliver i would like to have you there!
R.I.P."

I had a lot of questions to Oliver, but I did not make it in time.
With T14 we have here another debate about original Hiller version existance (not only on braunbuch spec) and if ever was used in C12.
From what i remember Oliver claimed that.
With laminations it's much more my stupid sense of humor and huge oversimplification.
My explanation also will be oversimplification.
I have my doubts on some informations about NOS laminations, direct replacements - which are stated on the site and was discussed on several forum discussions.
Whole world is about so many different brands direct replacements.
Those are things which are hard to prove or check, so yes i have my doubts in that case.
As also with many other manufacturers and their products - Tab funkwerk isn't the only one under my magnifier

For your first post, adressed to Klaus:
I see that! These curls

 

[ln76d]

second pic

I am sorry if this was already covered (so many threads, so little time), but can you transmit the dimensions of the transformer you show on the picture? I have several very early T14/1 from around 1957/8 and wonder, whether yours is bigger, i.e. closer to the mythical "T14", or whether this is just a distortion of the JPEG?

I'm not panman - but since we both here know - on the second pic is also T44/1

 

[Bonnie1]

Hello In76d,
With T14 we have here another debate about original Hiller version existance (not only on braunbuch spec) and if ever was used in C12. From what i remember Oliver claimed that.
Oliver collected a small library of historical data. It has yet to be organized, (I don't believe the word "organized" was in Oliver vocabulary)  However I believe I came across hiller T14 documentation in the last 23 months while I was looking for something else.  I believe the winding technic is what Oliver was referring to.

With laminations it's much more my stupid sense of humor and huge oversimplification.
My explanation also will be oversimplification.
I have my doubts on some informations about NOS laminations, direct replacements - which are stated on the site and was discussed on several forum discussions.
"NOS laminations"  Refer to UI30 lamination used in the BV08, BV11, BV12.  Yes, absolutely AMI still has have few lbs left.  In 2009 Oliver sourced a replacement 2 hole UI30 and released the classic series.  In Oliver's testing, there is virtually no difference between NOS UI30 and the sourced UI30 used in AMI's classic series.  There is sufficient documentation to support this.

"direct replacements" Refer to direct replacement transformers (not direct replacement lamination)

Whole world is about so many different brands direct replacements.
Those are things which are hard to prove or check, so yes i have my doubts in that case.
As also with many other manufacturers and their products - Tab funkwerk isn't the only one under my magnifier
I can't speak for any other manufacture, that may be under your magnifier.  I can say, If there is any product you purchase from AMI/Tab-funkenwerk that does not live up to your expectations or as described you can return the product for a refund.

I hope I have provided some clarification. 
-dmax

 

[carloff]

Also  my /23 does not use the Henry Radio V2148 xformer, but a V2545, allegedly built by Rohde & Schwarz.

Now, looking at my picture, I can see this pair also had the Rohde & Schwarz transformers. Apparently there were only 512 SM204's built.

Although the pair I worked on didn't sound like your classic C12 sound, I and everyone else who heard them thought they sounded fantastic in their own unique way.

Weren't these my pair Tim? just kidding I attached inside photo of my pair

 

[Tim Campbell]

Yes, Carloff, those were your pair 

 

[TLRT]

Summertime is over, got back the mic body from FLEA with the new internal connector. I removed the unnecessary parts also so I will rebuild it soon!
PSU is almost ready too.

 

[TLRT]

Working finally! Capsule has very weak sound, so it must go for reskinning(I just see I installed it in the wrong direction

 

[TLRT]

Project completed today, thank you for everybody

 

[GeorgeToledo]

One thought on the "23" suffix: I haven´t seen yet an SM204 without "/23". I once was told that the "23" is sort of a customer code for some mics built exclusively for the ORF.

This is bumping an older thread, but I wanted to update it with a picture of an SM204/3.