Alice Microphone - self noise question

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vinxz

Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
6
Location
Grenoble, France
Hi,
I just finished a couple of Alice microphones.
I used the exact part list given by Scott (I used the for the FET a pf5102 but also tried a 2sk170)
Both Mikes are working well, except that their self-noise is far above my modified Oktavas MK-012 & Rode NT-5.
As I read everywhere that they were supposed to have a very low self-noise, i'm wondering about what can be wrong in my realisation..

Do someone has an idea about the improvements I can bring to lower this noise ?

Thanks a lot !
 
did you clean the very hi-z parts and apply conformal coating?

what is the noise like?  intermittent, white,pink, hum?
 
Hi,
Thanks for your answer !
What do you call the very "very hi-z parts" ? (I didn't understand this part of scott's explanations)
The circuit has been done a very clean way, the 1 Go resistor and the FET are soldered to the capsule, and the rest has been soldered on a perfboard.
the noise is definitely a white noise (no hum issue, no intermittent noise)

 
Wash the high-Z parts with alcohol and dry thoroughly. Does the hiss go down?
 
The "hi-Z" section is everything from the mic capsule to the gate of the first FET.
That INCLUDES all the surfaces of the INSULATION between any node in the "high-Z" section and ANYTHING else in the world.

You would be surprised at the very small (actually INVISIBLE) amount of debris ANYWHERE in the hi-Z section. Including...
The insulation around the mic capsule itself.
The outside surface of any component (resistor, capacitor, transistor) in the hi-Z path.
The insulation between the first FET gate and the rest of the microphone.

You could try disconnecting the FET gate from EVERYTHING (Iincluding the PC board or terminal) and listen for noise.
If you have noise with everything disconnected, then you may need to clean the transistor body and/or you may have a bad transistor.
Remember also that that is an ultra-critical circuit, and FETs are selected that are lower-noise than average.
For some FET numbers, the letter at the end indicates which "noise bin" the transistor was tested for.
The "normal" version of even the "recommended" transistors may very well be too noisy for this critical circuit.

If the transistor by itself if quiet, then you can connect each part of the hi-Z circuit to test each part to see where the noise/leakage is.

I can't emphasize how critically important it is to have each and every part of the hi-z circuit INCREDIBLY SUPER-ULTRA-CLEAN.
And remember to use cleaning solvents that don't themselves leave residue that negate the cleaning process.
Back before it was outlawed, Freon was an ideal electronic cleaning solvent for this kind of critical circuit area.
Pure, grain alcohol (180 proof) is one solvent that leaves no residue (a US label is "Everclear")

Remember that residue that is INVISIBLE to the eye can completely ruin a hi-Z circuit like this.

If you look at most FET condenser microphones, you will note that that that first transistor gate is NOT connected to the PC board, it is connected to a teflon-insulated connection point that provides additional isolation even from the "insulating" PC board.
The answer to the question in the photo below is those Teflon stand-off terminals are used to isolate the hi-Z node from noisy surfaces, including the PC board. The orange wire goes to the mic capsule.

mic_capsule_lead_connections.jpg
 
Hi,
Thanks a lot for all these precisions !
I didn't realise before that this Hi-z stage was so critical...
Anyway, after a few test, the Hi-z stage of my both microphones seems clean, but I have the strong impression that the noise I get (and find astonishing high) is the capsule's self noise...
 
When you compare noise performance, you need to set the gain so the sensitivity of both mikes is the same.  You record some music simultaneously with both mikes adjusting the gain of each channel so both mikes sound equally loud.

Then record 20s of silence without touching the preamp gain.  If you use WAV files, you can use the ANALYSE tab in Audacity to plot the spectrums of each mike .. both for music and noise.

It's also worth replacing your TSB165 with a 24p NPO/COG ceramic capacitor and repeat the noise analysis.  (you can listen to it as well)

This gives you the electronic noise and will tell you if its the capsule or the electronics.
 

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