Amazing dumb person

[Brian Roth]

I thought that some folks in my part of the USA held the title for stupidity, but I guess idiocy can also be found in NYC.

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Two-Arrested-for-Gasoline-Hoarding-177184891.html?dr

Sounds like some chlorine needs to be added to the NYC gene pool.....

Bri

 

[living sounds]

I still think the guy happily jet-skiing near the NY port during the onset of the hurricane a week ago deserves the stupidity title.  :

 

[JohnRoberts]

He gets credit for enterprise, but loses points for unsafe handling of dangerous liquids. We have become blase about the energy content in just a cup of gasoline let alone one 5 gallon bucket. Fill a van with 5 gallon plastic buckets and you have a bomb.

It seems silly that in 2012 we do not have an adequately hardened utility distribution system for electricity.

In CT you need to ask permission to cut down a tree on your own property.  Trees and above ground power lines should be kept well separated.

If they want trees I have some extra they can have.

JR

 

[pucho812]

that guy is just a jerk. Hording at a time of emergency  = jerk. So you can add stupid for putting gas in plastic paint containers.  So he is a stupid jerk.

 

[JohnRoberts]

that guy is just a jerk. Hording at a time of emergency  = jerk. So you can add stupid for putting gas in plastic paint containers.  So he is a stupid jerk.

He was buying a scarce commodity and reselling it. He made several trips and did not have a large storage tank to hoard it in.

His main error was not appreciating how dangerous gasoline is, but dodged that bullet when authorities stopped him because it was so unsafe the way he did it. The outcome could have been so much worse. 

JR

 

[abechap024]

How can we assume exactly what his intentions were? I'm sure in his mind he was doing his own little "rescue effort": taking time and money to get get a scarce commodity and bringing it back to were there was need. Isn't this the basis of essentially all business ideas? It sounds like he wasn't just getting it all for himself.

Plus as stupid as it was to fill up all those 5 gallon buckets, I bet he didn't have much else he COULD do during this extreme weather incident.

Just my 2cents as the devils advocate.

PS. Also I had no idea there are laws telling people how much gas people can buy. Why wasn't the government the ones transporting the gas to these people in need? Also If they had signs around telling everyone there is a limit on how much gas one can buy thats one thing, but how would anyone know "the limit?"

 

[pucho812]

that guy is just a jerk. Hording at a time of emergency  = jerk. So you can add stupid for putting gas in plastic paint containers.  So he is a stupid jerk.

He was buying a scarce commodity and reselling it. He made several trips and did not have a large storage tank to hoard it in.

His main error was not appreciating how dangerous gasoline is, but dodged that bullet when authorities stopped him because it was so unsafe the way he did it. The outcome could have been so much worse. 

JR

O.k. so add opportunist to boot. What an a-hole he is.

 

[Spiritworks]

I live in CT and can tell you he's not the only one doing this. They're taking it back and selling it for $100.00 per gallon.

 

[JohnRoberts]

PS. Also I had no idea there are laws telling people how much gas people can buy. Why wasn't the government the ones transporting the gas to these people in need? Also If they had signs around telling everyone there is a limit on how much gas one can buy thats one thing, but how would anyone know "the limit?"

In fact I think the government has made some efforts to bring gas into the area, but that is putting a bandaid where a tourniquet is needed.

I'm sure I sound like a broken record but a more robust electrical distribution would solve several problems. If you don't need generators you don't need gas for generators.

In florida where such weather is more common, gas stations by law are wired up to accept generators so they can pump gas even without the power lines being hot. It's insane for a gas station to be down because it is lacking the modest power needed to run the pumps. While modern pumps probably need the WWW to check credit cards.

JR

 

[living sounds]

Bury the power lines at least. Before I visited the US I thought this was how it was done everywhere. And build an interconnected power net. The last power outage where I live I can remember was in the 90s, and it lasted 20 minutes or so.

Maybe now more people start to realize that infrastructure spending is a good idea...

 

[Spiritworks]

PS. Also I had no idea there are laws telling people how much gas people can buy. Why wasn't the government the ones transporting the gas to these people in need? Also If they had signs around telling everyone there is a limit on how much gas one can buy thats one thing, but how would anyone know "the limit?"

In fact I think the government has made some efforts to bring gas into the area, but that is putting a bandaid where a tourniquet is needed.

I'm sure I sound like a broken record but a more robust electrical distribution would solve several problems. If you don't need generators you don't need gas for generators.

In florida where such weather is more common, gas stations by law are wired up to accept generators so they can pump gas even without the power lines being hot. It's insane for a gas station to be down because it is lacking the modest power needed to run the pumps. While modern pumps probably need the WWW to check credit cards.

JR

There is now legislation pending which will offer no/low cost Govt loans to the gas stations for generators. From what I have heard, some refineries had to be shut down because of flooding. And for a while, some delivery trucks couldn't get filled, or couldn't navigate roadways due to debris/trees/flooding/etc.
I doubt that any of us will see a more robust and efficient electrical distribution system in our lifetimes. Besides, NYC electrical is all underground but it all got flooded. Salty sea water does not get along well with electrical equipment. The equipment always loses.

 

[PRR]

> Bury the power lines at least. Before I visited the US I thought this was how it was done everywhere. And build an interconnected power net.
> NYC electrical is all underground but it all got flooded. Salty sea water does not get along well with electrical equipment.

In 1888, the sky above the streets of NYC were full of telephone lines. There was an ice-storm, it all fell into the streets, making travel impossible. People died. Since then most electric in the denser areas of NYC have been underground. And every few decades, they flood, this time worst of all.

And as my brother says: if a 100 year old part just got ruined by its first encounter with salt water, you can't just call Westinghouse service for another one.

Bury? It varies. Here if I stick a spade in the ground I hit bedrock. And much of my land is wet (because the water has nowhere to go).

That means no underground services: power, phone, water, sewer, gas.

OTOH, back in my last house there was maybe 20 feet of nice dirt. The first electric was cheesy overhead, still in service along the street, but most homes went underground to the house. (Didn't help: that town was 99% dark for a week and may not be mostly-up for another week.)

Further south, there's hundred of feet of sand going down, but in many areas the water table is 3 or 4 feet down. (If you drain an in-ground swimming pool, it may float and pop-up out of the ground.) You can bury water sewer and gas, but electric needs such special care that it isn't done.

> how it was done everywhere.

Europe, right? Many more people per square mile than the US average (though perhaps comparable to the parts of NJ NY etc which Sandy hit). When you have 250 customers per mile of road, you can justify fairly robust service. When you have less than 25 per mile, it is hard to justify service at all (my road is 24/mile :{ ).

OTOH, Gov. Cuomo in NY is pounding his shoe on the desk, threatening to revoke electric monopolies, or at least investigate/harass them. In fact they are doing "OK" for a storm with FOUR TIMES the impact of any NYC-area storm in the last 70 years, and rate-pressure which discourages robust rennovations.

 

[abechap024]

I live in CT and can tell you he's not the only one doing this. They're taking it back and selling it for $100.00 per gallon.

Well trying to sell it for that much is extreme, and unfair but then again no one is forcing them to buy it. But I would hope like everyone else here that there would be some dignity and people would help each other. Trying to make money off people misfortune it totally not cool.

In this case, its not clear that flipping the gas for a profit was what this person was doing.

All it says is he "collected money from his neighbors"  what if he was selling it at cost? Anyway a shame that people would try to profit during a disaster like this.

It says the gas station owner was arrest to. Seriously? So I must not understand how this corrupt oil infrastructure works. Apparently a person owning gas in their gas station can't sell it to whom they want to? To me it seem ridiculous. Whatever happened to free market.

 

[kazper]

Bury the power lines at least. Before I visited the US I thought this was how it was done everywhere. And build an interconnected power net. The last power outage where I live I can remember was in the 90s, and it lasted 20 minutes or so.

Maybe now more people start to realize that infrastructure spending is a good idea...

Where is the like button!  The infrastructure is old and needs allot of work.

 

[shabtek]

needs work ,yes...the greed of the past went unchecked; so when the updates come they are paid for by todays consumers--- this work can be put off 'til a tipping point comes (act of nature of policy resulting from such act). essential infrastructure i.e. the power grid needs regulating...

 

[Spiritworks]

"  It says the gas station owner was arrest to. Seriously? So I must not understand how this corrupt oil infrastructure works. Apparently a person owning gas in their gas station can't sell it to whom they want to? To me it seem ridiculous. Whatever happened to free market.  "

It's against Federal Law to dispense gasoline in a non-approved container. The station owners should have, by law, not allowed the filling of five-gallon buckets or water bottles, etc. That's why they got busted. But which one of them wanted to risk a confrontation? People became desperate, with many instances of gun and knife weilding/threatening and fist-fights. Lots of line-cutters, along with the associated violence, at the long pump lines, with no police or National Guard prescence.
I have a friend who's a cop, and there are a LOT of stories not making the headlines.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Gasoline is dangerous stuff, and should not be carried in inappropriate containers. That is common sense that this individual (and many others) clearly lack. Thus the regulation.

=====

If we value the up-time of our utility distribution system, and don't have the ready capital, to bury it all, it seems prudent to trim back all the trees that not only overhang the lines with branches, but are tall and near enough to hit them if/when they fall.

Just walking across the street to the post office I can see several trees within striking distance of power lines. There are enough of these trees menacing power lines, that disruptions are not an "if" but a "when".

This will cost money too, and is probably distasteful to many tree lovers who don't want to lose or top off many of these trees.

If we keep doing what we are doing, we will keep getting what we are getting. This seems pretty obvious to me, but is yet another unpleasant choice people don't want to make. FWIW in many cases buried power lines would likely affect many of the same trees proximate to the power line right of way.

JR

 

[emrr]

Europe, right? Many more people per square mile than the US average (though perhaps comparable to the parts of NJ NY etc which Sandy hit). When you have 250 customers per mile of road, you can justify fairly robust service. When you have less than 25 per mile, it is hard to justify service at all (my road is 24/mile :{ ).

There's some benefit to that old world trend of small dense villages surrounded by miles of open fields, with another village several miles off in each direction.  Everyone gets serviced pretty equally, or none do.  Here we all want large estates with enough space to never encounter the neighbors, so getting service is more problematic on some levels. 

 

[shabtek]

when your lines are buried and they break, it takes much longer to find and fix the problem. think about frost stressing the conductors, stones and other sharp buried debris, dig ins,eventual moisture ingress--trim the trees, and replace wooden structures every 60 years.best cost:reliability, aerial wire all the way.

 

[PRR]

> trees menacing power lines

After the big 2003 blackout (triggered by trees), in 2005 the Fed made a rule (starting 2007) that power TRANSMISSION lines *must* be cut-back. Actual fines did not happen until this summer (2012).

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2008-08-11-outages_N.htm

Transmission lines are the huge towers across fields. The line down your street is Distribution, and its trees are not covered under any Fed rules.

There's national association rules and guidelines for local wires. Here's one specific to Utah but suggestive of general goals:
http://publicutilities.utah.gov/news/treecuttingfortheweb.pdf

Note 10-14 feet clearance all around the wire. That's sure not being maintained many places. (I have a birch-tip touching my wire....) OTOH, other guidelines say as little as 18 inches.

But something must be up. Hydro just spent a month (couple days a week) tree-trimming the 2 miles of my road. There's so few customers here (and no critical schools, post offices, businesses, etc) that our local outages would not be a blip on their annual report. OTOH, maybe they now get brownie-points for miles of line trimmed, and my street is an easy target (straight, fairly level, decent shoulders, no beautiful trees).

And there's stories of really aggressive cutting of whole trees, or cutting-off power to "landowners who obstruct vegetation management".

http://www.agalert.com/story/?id=3451
CT's Love Of Trees Threatens Electric Service
Neither Connecticut nor any of its neighbors mandate ...line clearance specifications for their electric companies
during the course of a year, trees are responsible for approximately 25% of all outages and more than 90% of storm-related outages