AMEK Angela Console, any comment and opinion? Thanks!
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ultra-alex
Well-known member
tony dB said:
no, i´am not the seller. a friend send me this link. looks like sweden. so its around 5k9 euros...
ultra-alex
Well-known member
sorry, but i´am not in any collaboration with the link i posted. just found it is fitting in here. 
jensenmann
Well-known member
Bo Hansen is a member here. For questions about this desk simply pm him
Carlos Lima
Well-known member
Worked on one Angela for 15 years. Well maintaned and cared, it is VERY nice. Do not beat a Neve, and the EQ is just a bit less than needed, but I was able to mix a LOT of good things on this board...
Best,
Carlos Lima
PS: Mina has NO automation and the faders were Alps.
Best,
Carlos Lima
PS: Mina has NO automation and the faders were Alps.
Sandersonic
Active member
I know this is an old thread, but it's probably best to keep all the info in one place!
Anyway, about six months ago I purchased an Angela and am so far very pleased! I am however interested in possibly removing the VCA's as I'll never use the automation (and don't even know if it works anyway). I've had contact with both Colin & Bo via email regarding this and have learned that I'll need to replace the faders on some of my channel strips if I remove the cards. I figured I'd start posting my questions here instead so that the knowledge ends up somewhere beyond my email inbox!
Here's what I'd like to have some feedback on:
Regarding re-capping the channel strips; is it simply a matter of replacing every electrolytic I find on the cards? And are there caps anywhere other than the channel strips which also need replacing?
Regarding the power supplies; any info on mods/upgrades/re-capping/refurbishing for these units would be well appreciated!
The desk configuration is as follows:
Ch 1-16 grey "A10-A2" modules (logarithmic faders)
Ch 17-24 blue "A10" modules (linear faders-to be replaced if VCA's are removed)
Aux channels "A20" & "A21"
Master "A32-A2"
Stereo channels (2) "A11-A2"
Anyway, about six months ago I purchased an Angela and am so far very pleased! I am however interested in possibly removing the VCA's as I'll never use the automation (and don't even know if it works anyway). I've had contact with both Colin & Bo via email regarding this and have learned that I'll need to replace the faders on some of my channel strips if I remove the cards. I figured I'd start posting my questions here instead so that the knowledge ends up somewhere beyond my email inbox!
Here's what I'd like to have some feedback on:
Regarding re-capping the channel strips; is it simply a matter of replacing every electrolytic I find on the cards? And are there caps anywhere other than the channel strips which also need replacing?
Regarding the power supplies; any info on mods/upgrades/re-capping/refurbishing for these units would be well appreciated!
The desk configuration is as follows:
Ch 1-16 grey "A10-A2" modules (logarithmic faders)
Ch 17-24 blue "A10" modules (linear faders-to be replaced if VCA's are removed)
Aux channels "A20" & "A21"
Master "A32-A2"
Stereo channels (2) "A11-A2"
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jensenmann
Well-known member
Replacing every electrolytic cap with the same value as already installed will be the safest way to bring sonics back to spec and improve reliability without having to think and measure too much. Mr Langley designed a very good sounding desk, so if you like the desk the way it sounds stick with the original values. Start with the master section!
The circuitry has some corners cut, though. If you wish to have a more solid low end and cleaner low-mids then there need some electrolytic´s values to be increased. I did that before on an Angela and it was worth the hassle IMO.
The next posters will surely tell you that it needs to be rechipped because modern chips are much "better" (whatever better means). If you´re on your own with renewing the desk and have no scope, signal generator and no expierience to check what you´re doing while rechipping then don´t do it. Or hire an experienced tech. There´s no such thing as 100% compatible replacement opamps. It may need some tweeks in the circuit which means measuring and evaluating what you´re modding. It can be done but does not guarantee that you like the sound better than before. As said, if you like the original sound stick with it.
If you want a bit more clarity then adding bypasscaps parallel to all electrolytics is a good place to start with.
The PSU is a good place to start with your work. Recap it and renew the thermal grease wherever applicable. A healthy PSU is the most important part of a console because it is in the signalpath of every channel!!! This will bring noise down by a surprising amount.
What´s wrong with your VCAs? IIRC the desk came with dbx215x VCAs which aren´t too bad. If you like it a bit cleaner you can replace them with THAT218x VCAs with a few tweeks. See the application notes: http://www.thatcorp.com/datashts/dn137.pdf This safes you from new faders and lots of tweaks in the circuitry around the fader.
The circuitry has some corners cut, though. If you wish to have a more solid low end and cleaner low-mids then there need some electrolytic´s values to be increased. I did that before on an Angela and it was worth the hassle IMO.
The next posters will surely tell you that it needs to be rechipped because modern chips are much "better" (whatever better means). If you´re on your own with renewing the desk and have no scope, signal generator and no expierience to check what you´re doing while rechipping then don´t do it. Or hire an experienced tech. There´s no such thing as 100% compatible replacement opamps. It may need some tweeks in the circuit which means measuring and evaluating what you´re modding. It can be done but does not guarantee that you like the sound better than before. As said, if you like the original sound stick with it.
If you want a bit more clarity then adding bypasscaps parallel to all electrolytics is a good place to start with.
The PSU is a good place to start with your work. Recap it and renew the thermal grease wherever applicable. A healthy PSU is the most important part of a console because it is in the signalpath of every channel!!! This will bring noise down by a surprising amount.
What´s wrong with your VCAs? IIRC the desk came with dbx215x VCAs which aren´t too bad. If you like it a bit cleaner you can replace them with THAT218x VCAs with a few tweeks. See the application notes: http://www.thatcorp.com/datashts/dn137.pdf This safes you from new faders and lots of tweaks in the circuitry around the fader.
Sandersonic
Active member
Hi Jens,
Very helpful response! Thanks!
Regarding the caps; Could you elaborate on which caps should have their values increased and by how much and also what value the bypass caps (I assume they are the "tantalum bead" or ceramic type?) should be and do you mean they should be on every electrolytic?
Regarding the chips; I've been discussing with a friend of mine about possible replacements and he has a few ideas. I'll post anything I end up doing, along with results, here.
Regarding the VCA's; I don't think that there's anything wrong with them per se, but channels 1-16 (the grey A10-A2 modules) either aren't connected (the ribbon cable slots are open) or aren't working. The VCA's on channels 17-24 (the blue A10 modules) all light up and appear to be connected. However, I've not familiarized myself with the automation functions due to lack of interest. I've mainly read that the sound is improved by removing them and since it's a feature I'll never use, I thought I'd take them out or at least bypass them since I don't have the blanking plates to cover the holes that would be left with the cards out.
Regarding the power supply; That's good! I'll make an inventory list of the caps & order them. I've heard that increasing the value on these can also be beneficial, but I'm not sure which caps that would apply to.
Regarding the overall sound; I'm pleased with it, but it's a bit on the dark side and I usually find myself adding a bit of top with the EQ on lots of stuff. Also, I think the bottom end could use a little bit of tightening up. None of this is to the point that it's it's disturbing, but it is something I noticed right away. I'm very keen on the vintage character of the sound and the amount of space there is in the soundfield (i.e. it sounds deep & wide when I'm mixing), but I'd like to hear a bit more clarity & tightness. So I imagine the capacitor replacement/bypass you mentioned would provide this?
Thanks agin for your input!
Kind regards,
Frank
Very helpful response! Thanks!
Regarding the caps; Could you elaborate on which caps should have their values increased and by how much and also what value the bypass caps (I assume they are the "tantalum bead" or ceramic type?) should be and do you mean they should be on every electrolytic?
Regarding the chips; I've been discussing with a friend of mine about possible replacements and he has a few ideas. I'll post anything I end up doing, along with results, here.
Regarding the VCA's; I don't think that there's anything wrong with them per se, but channels 1-16 (the grey A10-A2 modules) either aren't connected (the ribbon cable slots are open) or aren't working. The VCA's on channels 17-24 (the blue A10 modules) all light up and appear to be connected. However, I've not familiarized myself with the automation functions due to lack of interest
. I've mainly read that the sound is improved by removing them and since it's a feature I'll never use, I thought I'd take them out or at least bypass them since I don't have the blanking plates to cover the holes that would be left with the cards out.Regarding the power supply; That's good! I'll make an inventory list of the caps & order them. I've heard that increasing the value on these can also be beneficial, but I'm not sure which caps that would apply to.
Regarding the overall sound; I'm pleased with it, but it's a bit on the dark side and I usually find myself adding a bit of top with the EQ on lots of stuff. Also, I think the bottom end could use a little bit of tightening up. None of this is to the point that it's it's disturbing, but it is something I noticed right away. I'm very keen on the vintage character of the sound and the amount of space there is in the soundfield (i.e. it sounds deep & wide when I'm mixing), but I'd like to hear a bit more clarity & tightness. So I imagine the capacitor replacement/bypass you mentioned would provide this?
Thanks agin for your input!
Kind regards,
Frank
jensenmann
Well-known member
Frank, answering everything everything in detail would fill pages. I only have the grey Angela schematics so I can´t give you advice on the blue strips. But IIRC they are pretty much the same.
If you like the "vintage" character but want more clarity and lowend control then the solution IMO is to recap, add bypasscaps and increase some values. Stick with the original chips in the channels.
If you have a look at the schematics of the A10 strips you find a triangle labeled U4, NE5534. That´s the sign of an opamp. The output (PIN6) leads to an electrolytic cap labeled C9, 100/10. That´s the output coupling cap of the forementioned opamp. What makes most sense is to up the value of these output coupling caps from 100uF/10V to 470uF/10V in every place where you find the opamps named TL072 or NE5532 or NE5534 (or TL074 in the aux, group and master strips). Don´t mess with chips labeled MC1458. If opamps don´t have an output coupling cap don´t worry, that ain´t bad
Sometimes these caps are a bit hidden, look at C83 which is connected to U5 via switch S31. Stick with the original value of C79. Increase C3 to as big as mechanically fits (IIRC 4700/6,3V Panasonic FC fits). Bypasscaps can be something between 0,01 and 0,1uF film caps. I´m using 0,1uF/63V Wima MKS2 mostly.
There´s much more to tell, as said, but that´s a good starting point for the channels.
Personally I´d rechip the masters because having a monitor section with better resolution/lower noise/better output drive capability is a worthwhile improvement. It will not destroy the character of the console but you will be able to monitor more detailed.
If you like the "vintage" character but want more clarity and lowend control then the solution IMO is to recap, add bypasscaps and increase some values. Stick with the original chips in the channels.
If you have a look at the schematics of the A10 strips you find a triangle labeled U4, NE5534. That´s the sign of an opamp. The output (PIN6) leads to an electrolytic cap labeled C9, 100/10. That´s the output coupling cap of the forementioned opamp. What makes most sense is to up the value of these output coupling caps from 100uF/10V to 470uF/10V in every place where you find the opamps named TL072 or NE5532 or NE5534 (or TL074 in the aux, group and master strips). Don´t mess with chips labeled MC1458. If opamps don´t have an output coupling cap don´t worry, that ain´t bad
Sometimes these caps are a bit hidden, look at C83 which is connected to U5 via switch S31. Stick with the original value of C79. Increase C3 to as big as mechanically fits (IIRC 4700/6,3V Panasonic FC fits). Bypasscaps can be something between 0,01 and 0,1uF film caps. I´m using 0,1uF/63V Wima MKS2 mostly.
There´s much more to tell, as said, but that´s a good starting point for the channels.
Personally I´d rechip the masters because having a monitor section with better resolution/lower noise/better output drive capability is a worthwhile improvement. It will not destroy the character of the console but you will be able to monitor more detailed.
Sandersonic
Active member
Wow!
Thanks for sharing Jens, that was very kind of you! I'll report back once I've made the changes.
Regards,
Frank
Thanks for sharing Jens, that was very kind of you! I'll report back once I've made the changes.
Regards,
Frank
Sandersonic
Active member
Hi again Jens,
Any recommendations for replacement chips in the master section? They're all on sockets so it would be really simple to test different ones without any hassle.
The chips in my master section are as follows (you probably already know this):
9x NE5534P
1x TLO74CN
6x TLO72CP
Should they all be substituted or just specific ones?
Thanks!
Regards,
Frank
Any recommendations for replacement chips in the master section? They're all on sockets so it would be really simple to test different ones without any hassle.
The chips in my master section are as follows (you probably already know this):
9x NE5534P
1x TLO74CN
6x TLO72CP
Should they all be substituted or just specific ones?
Thanks!
Regards,
Frank
jensenmann
Well-known member
I haven´t reworked an Angela master upto now, but will do so end of April. If you´re not in a hurry then wait until I have gone through this, I may come up with a more detailed answer.
From looking at the schematic of the A32 channel I´d say keep all the 5534 because they are fitted in the right places. Replace U3, U4, U5 with OPA2134 which will probably cause no trouble by simple swapping in these circuits. But add 0,1uF bypass caps from pin 4 to ground and pin 8 to (the same) ground. Leave the other chips as they are, they are not in sensitive places. One of the TL074 amps is the solo summing amp and will affect the solo-sound, though. That´s a place where I´d recommend using something else but not without measuring.
From looking at the schematic of the A32 channel I´d say keep all the 5534 because they are fitted in the right places. Replace U3, U4, U5 with OPA2134 which will probably cause no trouble by simple swapping in these circuits. But add 0,1uF bypass caps from pin 4 to ground and pin 8 to (the same) ground. Leave the other chips as they are, they are not in sensitive places. One of the TL074 amps is the solo summing amp and will affect the solo-sound, though. That´s a place where I´d recommend using something else but not without measuring.
gar381
Well-known member
Sandersonic said:
Leave them be
Mine sounds great stock !
This is a picture the day I bought it
before I rebuilt her.
GARY
Sandersonic
Active member
Ok,
I've recently had a rather perplexing problem with one of the channels on my Angela. It started with there being no sound on the channel save for a "thump" as the fader passed 0dB. The problem was the same whether the input was mic or line. Otherwise, everything was lit-up which suggested that there was power to the strip. Then, one day, when I turned the board on...nothing. No lights, no thump. Just a dead channel. I have the complete schematics that I bought from Colin at Audio Maintenance and have had a look around. After a bit of head-scratching, the best guess I can come up with is that something on the JP54D automation card has gone wrong? Specifically U3 (TL072CP), U4 (LM394N) or U5 (MC1458P).
I'm just not exactly sure why this would've subsequently knocked out the whole strip? (i.e. lights etc.). As I've only got a single benchtop power-supply which is 30VDC max, I can't properly bench-test the unit as it requires both +/- 17.5VDC and +12VDC so at this point, I'm just making guesses based on the schematics.
The automation cards are fitted on all 24 channels of my desk, but they are not used. The card version is JP54D (photo attached).
The A10 channel strip PCB has the designation GL60E and is fitted with a P&G fader PGF-3220-D-M-XA Spec. No. D2557B
Any help would be well-appreciated!
Thanks!
Regards,
Frank
I've recently had a rather perplexing problem with one of the channels on my Angela. It started with there being no sound on the channel save for a "thump" as the fader passed 0dB. The problem was the same whether the input was mic or line. Otherwise, everything was lit-up which suggested that there was power to the strip. Then, one day, when I turned the board on...nothing. No lights, no thump. Just a dead channel. I have the complete schematics that I bought from Colin at Audio Maintenance and have had a look around. After a bit of head-scratching, the best guess I can come up with is that something on the JP54D automation card has gone wrong? Specifically U3 (TL072CP), U4 (LM394N) or U5 (MC1458P).
I'm just not exactly sure why this would've subsequently knocked out the whole strip? (i.e. lights etc.). As I've only got a single benchtop power-supply which is 30VDC max, I can't properly bench-test the unit as it requires both +/- 17.5VDC and +12VDC so at this point, I'm just making guesses based on the schematics.
The automation cards are fitted on all 24 channels of my desk, but they are not used. The card version is JP54D (photo attached).
The A10 channel strip PCB has the designation GL60E and is fitted with a P&G fader PGF-3220-D-M-XA Spec. No. D2557B
Any help would be well-appreciated!
Thanks!
Regards,
Frank
Attachments
pucho812
Well-known member
Have you tried swapping the channel with another channel to see if the thump follow the channel or stays with the slot?
Sandersonic
Active member
Yes I have. The problem follows the strip. Voltages in the edge-connector in the chassis are within tolerance. (besides, if it were a power issue, I'm guessing there'd be more than one channel out?). Interestingly enough, I tried dropping it in this evening (it's been out on a shelf for a while) and when I switched on the power supply, it wouldn't stay on until I took the bad channel out again. That is, if I didn't hold in the "On/Reset" button on the front of the 9000-series power supply, it wouldn't stay on. Took out the bad channel and it turned on no problem.
So, perhaps a short? Somewhere...
So, perhaps a short? Somewhere...
pucho812
Well-known member
well you know at this point the problem is in the strip. I assume you do not have channel extenders so no real way to test it as you do not have mutiple bench supplies, but you can do the the long way about it and test components with you DMM, that would at least eliminate diodes, resistors, transistors and capacitors. You can also test by removing opamps if they are socketed and see if any of those are causing the thing to fail. ideally if it is an opamp, the strip would power up when the faulty one is not connected, testing the components can have you replacing the faulty ones. Also give the strip a careful once over with a magnifying lens, you may spot something burnt like a resistor or a trace. If you had schematics it would help.
Sandersonic
Active member
No, I haven't got any channel extenders, but it might be time to buy or make some. I'll check Audio Maintenance where I bought the schematics.
I've had a very careful look for anything obvious like burnt components, lifted pads, cold joints etc. but everything appears to be fine. I will try sequencially pulling out the suspect op-amps/transistor pair I listed above & see if that makes a difference.
I'll post when I've given that a try!
I've had a very careful look for anything obvious like burnt components, lifted pads, cold joints etc. but everything appears to be fine. I will try sequencially pulling out the suspect op-amps/transistor pair I listed above & see if that makes a difference.
I'll post when I've given that a try!
