AMS-Neve article on their transformers.

GroupDIY Audio Forum

Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

TheJames

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
377
I'm sure this has been seen by most, but one piece of it was something I didn't know and can't find any reference to anywhere other than this article.

http://ams-neve.com/news-and-events/getting-wound-about-neve-transformers

When AMS neve began re-starting the manufacture of the original Neve 1073 classic module back in 2003, Neve's senior design engineer evaluated the VT26670 which Carnhill were producing and concluded that this was as close to the original as it could possibly be. This is the transformer supplied to AMS-Neve exclusively in the Green can and to the rest of the world in the Blue can.

What's that VT26670?

 
From the article you are referencing

10468  - Input Transformer

A senior R&D engineer at Neve and a design engineer from Marinair designed this transformer in late 1968. This was to replace the larger round octal base Gardners transformer MU7524, used for Microphone inputs and mix amplifiers. They managed to design a smaller transformer with excellent performance; initially in a round can with the 11-pin base but also the square can version, which would fit better inside the 45mm wide modules.



AMS Neve holds the copies of the original notebook pages showing the performance results achieved. Marinair initially produced this transformer. When Marinair couldn’t keep up with the demand from Neve, St.Ives Windings was asked to produce this transformer as well as Marinair. Both Marinair and St. Ives produced variations of this transformer for Neve - all designated 10468 - but having different part numbers. Technical report TR-187 dated July 1975 evaluated a modified version of this transformer from St. Ives, comparing it to a non modified one.



When AMS neve began re-starting the manufacture of the original Neve 1073 classic module back in 2003, Neve's senior design engineer evaluated the VT26670 which Carnhill were producing and concluded that this was as close to the original as it could possibly be. This is the transformer supplied to AMS-Neve exclusively in the Green can and to the rest of the world in the Blue can.

So looks to be the input transformer
 
Hey Pucho,

I saw that it's an input transformer.  However I can't find any information on that specific part number.  I haven't messaged Carnhill about it as I just saw it today and thought I'd ask the group if anyone knew anything about it.

As far as I know, most of us are using the VTB9045 for Neve inputs.

James
 
there are a few differences between the early 1166 and later stuff,

one of the primaries is reverse wound on the older varnish job that we took apart,

another is random winding versus machine wound coils,

and also, the early stuff was wound with mega tension on the wire, almost to the breaking point,

and the turns count on the 2567 is different, although the coil structure is the same, S-P-S-P-S,

1166>
 

Attachments

  • Neve 1166 OPT.png
    Neve 1166 OPT.png
    82.3 KB
2567 (ungapped version of 1166 with different turns count)>
 

Attachments

  • Neve 2567 OPT.png
    Neve 2567 OPT.png
    155.9 KB
Thanks for the info CJ.

Did you work with Ed on his 1166 and 10468 transformers?  Do you know how he's winding them?

I have one of his 1166-500 transformers and his 10468 transformer coming in to try out.

 
I recall near the beginning of the Neve reissue products they made the claim their custom order transformers were superior to the standard issue Carnhill product in terms of low frequency distortion.  Did this story change?  Did Carnhill improve/replace their standard product after a contractually obligated period?
 
The history of Neve and their transformers is about as convoluted as the history of Eddie Van Halen's guitar amp.

Lots of speculation, lots of misinformation.
 
not wanting to perpetuate "rumor" but here's some more hearsay on the issue  ;D

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"And this is the tranny that people associate the 1073/84 Neve sound with. It's has a large effect on the sound, much much more so than the input trannys. Alas, it's also the tranny cloner's have had the hardest time getting 'cloned'. Latest word was that AMS-Neve finally nailed it per se and that only they get the 'special' LO1166, while others get a different LO1166 (included BAE)."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony Belmont in response: "Just an as an FYI, that rumor is total BS... Carnhill only makes one 10468 and one L01166 model... The only thing that makes it special is that they put a sticker on it that says "AMS-Neve". "
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Could be....I certainly have no insider info on this......I just heard the rumor.

And BTW, what year was it that Carnhill nailed the LO1166? Was there 2 versions, early and late? 'cos they were making/cloning them for a while...."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"yeah, there is something in print somewhere from neve about having a special deal with carnhill. possibly b.s., or not, who knows?

anyhow, i think one could just call carnhill and ask the appropriate questions to the appropriate people and find out for oneself, rather than having us guessing at it, no?"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony Belmont in response: "That's exactly what I did when the rumor first started."

..more from Tony:  "As a follow up to the AMS Neve special transformer thing.... I now have a letter from the MANAGER of Quality and Sales at Carnhill in my possession, which directly addresses the "special transformer" rumor... it states quite simply the following (I have paraphrased):

Carnhill/ St Ives have been manufacturing the same products for what is now called "vintage audio" since the 70's. And these products have undergone various minor changes up until the present day.

There is only ONE assembly line for these transformers. The only change which has taken place for the AMS Neve transformers is the GREEN PAINT for the mic/ line transformers outer cans. Other companies receive BLUE PAINT on the outer cans of these transformers.

This is the ONLY difference between an AMS Neve purchase with Carnhill and any of their competitor's. In 2004, various tolerances were "tightened up", and this was carried out GLOBALLY.

In a nut shell NO ONE gets any better or worse product or ANY TYPE of VARIANCE of a product from Carnhill. They are ALL the same.

Anyone who says anything otherwise is full of BS. "
---
"Who specifically did you speak to at Carnhill... What is their name? This is how rumors get perpetuated on the internet.... some guy heard from some other guy that they sprinkle magic fairy dust on "X" thing.

The Managing Director of Quality and Sales Rodger German wrote the letter I have. He is second in command at the company and has been there for 30+ years.

You can think they sprinkle magic fairy dust on them if you want... it's your choice."




10429855_10202265231632293_1388649982174954441_n.jpg


LO 1166, the print here shows LI 1166?  Looks like LI 1166 is same as LO 2567 but gapped?
 
So that's good info....And there's the part number that I was curious about.

But uh...Where do you get them?  That VT22670 does not show up anywhere.

 
wonder what lams they use now days, same company still making the steel and nickel lams? any differences would show up in the low end,

and processing, wax versus varnish or epoxy, this might affect the high end,

best way to check is do a blind test in a room full of audio geeks and have somebody swap the transformers,
 
VT22670 is the old St Ives partnumber for the 104678, Carnhill has their own which is the VTB9045
 

Attachments

  • marinair_porn_1.jpg
    marinair_porn_1.jpg
    199.8 KB
Ah HA!!!!

There's a TYPO on the AMS-Neve page.

They specified the input transformer as "VT26670" in the article I linked to when it's really "VT22670."

Searching VT22670 yields hits on the Interwebs.
 
MicDaddy said:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony Belmont in response: "Just an as an FYI, that rumor is total BS... Carnhill only makes one 10468 and one L01166 model... The only thing that makes it special is that they put a sticker on it that says "AMS-Neve". "........

10429855_10202265231632293_1388649982174954441_n.jpg

somebody have done some comparison with audio sample or instrument traces  about ?
that would be a very very great help
 

Latest posts

Back
Top