Any info on the elusive Olive console ('70s...)?

[duckie]

Dear DIYers,

can anyone help me gather some info (schematics, brochures, actually anything...) about the very rare Olive console, of which very few units were built in the Montreal factory during the seventies?

It looks like its design was quite ahead of times, so much so that the technology of the time wasn't up to the task, resulting in plenty of faults and frequent down time. I think it used a discrete gyrator in its eq and filter stage, so I'd really like to know something more about it, but it seems that very few people know about it, let alone have seen one first hand.
So, any info would be extremely welcome.

Thanks!

Duckie

 

[ruffrecords]

You must have seen this article which gives you several leads:

The Olive Console and Caribou Ranch

Cheers

Ian

 

[duckie]

Thanks, Ian!

It looks like a good starting point.

 

[Brian Roth]

I have a full set of brochures for the Olive desks **somewhere**. My semi-organized files were totally disrupted when I moved nine years ago.

I do have scans of a few pages that I made eons ago. One or two of these overlap with those in the "history of recording" article linked above, but you can zoom in to take a closer look.

Bri

 

[fazer]

The inventor also made the Amber 4400 test set of which I have one. It is all early opamps like LM 301s,318s with cmos switching that was simple digital control. Discrete gyrator means what? I would think it would be an opamp gyrator. My 4400 has a boatload shadow switches and although interesting for it time( being a spectrum analyzer), the constant repairs is as you say never quite worked and was 20k bandwidth and most useful with the analog studio of the time. I would question the sound quality of the board. I remember it setting downstairs at caribou and they were excited to get the 8014 used neve In. Which was used on an incredible number of albums and artist. I think the console was donated to CU Denver center arturia campus. You might be able to contact the music school to see if they have info or talk to some engineer student there.

 

[gyraf]

discrete gyrator, like: Gyrator circuit: simulate large coils electronically

 

[fazer]

discrete gyrator, like: Gyrator circuit: simulate large coils electronically

Thanks the use of the word discrete made me wonder if there was a unique version of gyrator circuit. And I see a single transistor can be used.

 

[Ike Zimbel]

Dear DIYers,

can anyone help me gather some info (schematics, brochures, actually anything...) about the very rare Olive console, of which very few units were built in the Montreal factory during the seventies?

It looks like its design was quite ahead of times, so much so that the technology of the time wasn't up to the task, resulting in plenty of faults and frequent down time. I think it used a discrete gyrator in its eq and filter stage, so I'd really like to know something more about it, but it seems that very few people know about it, let alone have seen one first hand.
So, any info would be extremely welcome.

Thanks!

Duckie

Not sure if it's still there, but about ten years ago there was an Olive desk sitting under a tarp in the orchard at a small winery in Prince Edward County, Ontario, Canada. I just took a very quick peek at it, saw earwigs crawling around in the VU meters and put the tarp back down

 

[duckie]

. . . Discrete gyrator means what? I would think it would be an opamp gyrator. . . .

Here's the actual schematic of the gyrator used in the Olive Console that a friend of mine kindly sent me.
As you can see, both ICs and discrete transistors are employed.

Unfortunately, since this is the only schematic I've found, I have no idea what all those numbered pins were connected to...

 

[duckie]

Not sure if it's still there, but about ten years ago there was an Olive desk sitting under a tarp in the orchard at a small winery in Prince Edward County, Ontario, Canada. I just took a very quick peek at it, saw earwigs crawling around in the VU meters and put the tarp back down

...the plot thickens!

Thanks for the info, Ike.

 

[Doc Morgan]

I know Wayne Jones from the Amber days, and had many an enjoyable conversation with the guy. Wayne sold me his personal Amber 3501 nearly twenty years ago, and it still holds pride of place in my lab, being used frequently. He was, in many ways, ahead of his time.

 

[fazer]

Unfortunately, since this is the only schematic I've found, I have no idea what all those numbered pins were connected to...

And so the puzzle begins. The olive was ahead of it’s time and kinda like an Italian sports car that required a Italian mechanic to take care of the dream. It’s interesting you wind up with the schematic and no other. This is where the SSL 4000 became the working version of what the Olive started out to be. The. SSL had the support and sales department and the olive did not. The olive in Canada was the one of 3 consoles that operated because the builder lived there. Good luck with your endeavor.

 

[mrtonyturns]

Here's the actual schematic of the gyrator used in the Olive Console that a friend of mine kindly sent me.

As you can see, both ICs and discrete transistors are employed.

Unfortunately, since this is the only schematic I've found, I have no idea what all those numbered pins were connected to..

Thanks for sharing! It isn’t letting me load it right now. Would you be able to repost it if you still have it?

 

[mrtonyturns]

Also, does anybody have a copy of the schematic for the preamp that they use? Would really be interested to see how that works to get the sound. It’s a very uniquely cool sound.

 

[orphanaudio]

Hopefully this post will help somewhat, or perhaps add to the mystery,.... but what a cool project to pursue !!

I was recently sent a beautiful rack of Olive 2100 eqs (possibly once the property of Richard Kaplan/ Indigo Ranch) to restore, build a power supply and add a new rear panel with XLR I/O.
Attached are a few close-up photos of the front panel and innards, note the distinct lack of electrolytics (only two as bypass for +/-15v) only five transistors that just appear to be providing bias for opamps with one wired for driving the EQ led. The three 10turn trimmers suggest this eq was DC coupled and the trims were for DC offset nulling. With the only transistors on the card apparently employed for handling DC, it appears the 2100 was entirely IC based for its gyrator implementation.

Also attached is the pinout with lots of scribbled notes (apologies for the typical hard to read engineers handwriting).

I would have dug into these beauties a bit further to discover and draw-out their secrets, but since they were all in completely operating condition after switch cleaning and recap, and only two required mechanical attention (two LF indicator switches with frequency wheels that had been accidentally offset during prior service work and were displaying the wrong frequencies for the switch position).
It took minutes to open the two eqs up to re-align the offset switch wheels, but almost an hour each to return them to their factory condition using gentle patience with miniature pliers, tiny screwdrivers and several sets of hemostats to keep all the hardware and clamping plate aligned on the first switch layer, so I could tease the toggle switch wires and upper switch layer back into place and run the screws home without crimping wires in between.
With that behind me, I began to understand some of the challenges Wayne ran into during the design and fabrication of this groundbreaking console.
In consideration of the agony required for those simple switch re-alignments, and the fact that these are customer property, it thoroughly quenched my desire to draw these beasties out.

What I can say after performing final audio listening tests, is they are surprisingly excellent sounding. The mid-frequency bandwidths chosen make the eqs very useful and quite musical (if you will forgive the somewhat elusive audio superlative).
My initial mechanical impression that operating them would be a bit clumsy evaporated as I found the toggle switches that offered Peak/Off/Dip function for Mids and Boost/Off/Cut for HI and Low shelves made things much easier for comparative equalization. In addition the gain mode switching means that the entire 12 step range of each gain switch can be used for Boost and Cut, offering a total of 24 steps of gain for each band, typically available only in a mastering eq. The only other compact modular eq,s that use the same technique for expanded gain control (as far as I am aware) are the B&B Audio EQF-1 and EQF-2, 500 series parametric eq modules from around 1983 (licensed later for production by Aphex).

The data I have collected brings up a question as to what product the Gyrator schematic (that Duckie was generous enough to share) came from, or was eventually intended to pair with. I also noticed the file size (over 4mb) large even for a hi-res color PDF and that the table of contents shows listings for 132 schematics and 42 additional scans with Lambda in their titles.
So the question is, what happened to the other 173 schematics in the original PDF file (or tiff scan collection)??
If you still have contact with the person who granted you that PDF it might be interesting to ask if they have any other versions of that doc.


Thank you,

Ken Hirsch / Director of Engineering
Orphan Audio www.orphanaudio.com
Quad-Eight Electronics www.quadeightelectronics.com
Electrodyne Audio www.electrodyneaudio.com (a division of Orphan Audio)

 

[mrtonyturns]

Thank you so much for the reply! I’ve been a massive fan of the equipment that you guys have been producing. That’s incredibly awesome that you got your hands on some of the elusive Olive EQ’s.

I got the schematic from someone earlier in this thread so I’ll have to reach out. Do you think reaching out to Craig Patterson directly would yield results on getting a copy of the schematics?

 

[orphanaudio]

Thank you so much for the reply! I’ve been a massive fan of the equipment that you guys have been producing. That’s incredibly awesome that you got your hands on some of the elusive Olive EQ’s.

Thank you so much, its always great to hear that the community is benefiting from the work I do and enjoying using the gear we design or restore, but even if no one spoke up, I would still be doing it and loving it just the same.

I got the schematic from someone earlier in this thread so I’ll have to reach out. Do you think reaching out to Craig Patterson directly would yield results on getting a copy of the schematics?

My feeling is, cast your net far and wide and eventually you will get a hit or two, and maybe a bonanza of info.
Ask everyone you can find who might have a clue, but going back to the original founding engineers and asking if they have anything or know where to look is usually the first place to start. Get permission to post the data to the Pro and Hobbyist community and always give credit where it is due.
Anyone who has a buddy, who has a friend, who knows someone else who worked there, that might know someone else who might have some document copies safely hidden away is also a great lead to run down. (Duckie??, you listening?)
Let these incredibly talented and forward thinking designers and support staff know you are just one of many interested in chasing down and helping to enshrine, immortalize and educate fans of Pro-Audio about the legend of Olive and its contributions to the industry,... and perhaps some of their products will live again so many more can enjoy them.


How I made a small fortune (starting with a fairly large one, or.... "what the heck was I thinking!!??") :
In the early 1980's I visited the Quad-Eight factory on Vose Street in North Hollywood, CA. after purchasing a QEE CL-22 needing repair. I bought a replacement AM-10 opamp for the compressor and the production manager handed me a complete set of full size blueprints, still warm from the Daizo copier. That was the point where I started collecting, organizing and archiving vintage documentation and parts, and created a much needed factory level support system for obsolete products that might otherwise vanish into the mists of time. With that simple experience, Orphan Audio was born, and over time I was able to bring Quad-Eight, Electrodyne and a few others back to life, and am able to help breathe life back into countless more vintage products.

The current document collection is well over 30,000 meticulously organized individual paper schematics and technical data from hundreds of brands, and a few complete company archives for several major brands (many are original hand drafted pencil on vellum drawings), plus Service manuals, PCB parts locators and Parts lists, Mechanical fabrication drawings, Data sheets and Advertising brochures, Test & Calibration procedures, Operator manuals, PC board fabrication films, Wiring/Pinout sheets, Application data, plus countless more scans, photos, PDF docs and manuals on the company servers.
I have also made friends with dozens of original design engineers and production staff from many of the companies we directly support, which allows me to call someone up and chat when I have hit a wall during a restoration or want to clarify details on one of their products that is still in use and highly valued by the Pro-Audio community.
Notes from those conversations almost always make it onto a shop copy of the schematics and its great to occasionally brain-storm with these geniuses of audio, and every now and then, one of them calls and says, "Hey, I found this box of schematics I though was lost,.... want it??"

Rare service docs:
With respect to people requesting service and historical documents from the Orphan Audio Archives,......Some docs are free (pinouts are always free) or I can just pass on some scanned files at no charge, especially if it was something pulled from the web where the original server or website has been lost, or came to me at no cost in the first case.
Other docs may incur costs depending on what the document is, how large (most 8.5x11 sheets are easy to copy,... but not all!!), how many individual sheets are involved and how long I have to work restoring and copying (for small size docs) or do I have to crank up the 42" wide/2400dpi large format scanner, dig into the massive flat-file storage to locate a specific set of drawings and often spend hours getting everything readable, hand re-drawing hundreds of unreadable parts values and distorted or missing schematic lines, so I can then re-print a full size (24" x 36" or larger) schematic that will actually be useful.
Nothing is worse than scrolling madly across a huge page on a tiny computer screen, squinting at horribly furry parts values at maximum zoom.... ""is that a 5,..a 6 or... an A???" (often scanned by someone else at 300dpi or less, or from a low-res photo, sometimes in 8.5x11 chunks that d0n't-qUiTe-f1t-backK-2geth3R... or saved with lossy data compression).

Spare parts and technical assist:
The Orphan Audio vintage parts inventory shelving covers most of a 3500 square foot building on two levels with eight service benches a small machine shop and a modest PCB assembly line for new products,..... and I am happy to assist if you need a bit of technical advice, but please know the shop is always overloaded with work on demanding customer deadlines, I am not always free to go over details at any time and only get to emails 2-3 times a week, so please be patient and if you would like a phone conversation, send an email though one of the websites first to set up a time and outline what you need assistance with.

So...... you could say its gotten more than a bit out of control over the years since it started, "but a man,s gotta have a hobby".


Thank you,

Ken Hirsch / Director of Engineering
Orphan Audio www.orphanaudio.com
Quad-Eight Electronics www.quadeightelectronics.com
Electrodyne Audio www.electrodyneaudio.com (a division of Orphan Audio)

"Education is the cure for everything"

 

[pvision]

I imagine the Digitran thumbwheel switches were also used in the Aengus equalisers. I always liked those EQs

 

[orphanaudio]

I imagine the Digitran thumbwheel switches were also used in the Aengus equalisers. I always liked those EQs

The Digitran "Mini-Lever" switch was likely first seen (at least in the pro-audio biz) in our legendary Electrodyne 712L 9-band inductor graphics (first released in mid 1971) and their direct descendants, Sphere 900 series eqs that came a few years after.

You may have also seen them on some of the first Non-API 500 series modules from APSI, MAP and Aengus/Jensen.
Unfortunately since Digitran's acquisition by Electroswitch several years ago, their piece price has risen to levels that compete with the legendary NASA outer-space rated Hammers and Toilet seats. The last quote I got about 10 years ago was $225usd ea/ 1000pc minimium and a $1500 non-refundable setup charge (ouch!). A pretty steep price increase considering the Electrodyne factory manufacturing archives show that same switch was less than $9usd ea in the 1970's and available in manageable 100pc min quantities.

Fortunately I still have a pretty decent inventory of NOS Mini-Levers so we can keep your vintage Electrodyne, Sphere, APSI and Aengus eq,s operating for many years to come.

If anyone is curious, I attached the vintage datasheet with Digitran 28000 series "Mini-Lever" data and many more of their other classic Aerospace switch products, since Digitran/Electroswitch seems to have taken those datasheets off their websites.

I thought about posting pix of all the eq,s I have worked on that use the Mini-Lever, but its a bit outside the scope of this thread.
Please let me know if there are threads that would benefit from those images (and a few related datasheets) from dozens of vintage lever eq,s that have traveled across our service/restoration benches.

Thank you,

Ken Hirsch / Director of Engineering
Orphan Audio www.orphanaudio.com
Quad-Eight Electronics www.quadeightelectronics.com
Electrodyne Audio www.electrodyneaudio.com (a division of Orphan Audio)

"Education is the cure for everything"

 

[orphanaudio]

I didn't see these related Olive links amongst the posts, so here they are (or again if I missed them)..

https://www.craigpatterson.com/the-olive-consolehttp://www.waynejones.net/olive/index.htmhttps://pmerecords.com/the-olive
Several of the above maintain mirrored data, but best to know them all in case one becomes inaccessible.