Any interest in remote controlled preamps?

[dcharrison]

It just struck me how many folks would like to be able to reach the volume controls of their powered monitors from the mix position.  When you are coming straight out of the converters and the phone starts to ring, it's a real panic fishing around with a mouse to kill the volume.  Passive attenuators are great, but a rc servo on the monitor would be as transparent as you can get!  Especially if a single UI could control 2 pots! (or 6 for 5.1)  How does one-to-many work in this topology?

 

[Samuel Groner]

I suggest that before getting too much into the implementation details one should bring up some rough specifications. In particular the needed gain range is important. Then see whether we want transformers at the input or not. Only after this is clear it makes sense to think about the gain control stuff.

Samuel

 

[dcharrison]

I think it would be wise to look at the remote control and the preamp as complementary but distinct entities.  A general purpose servo for turning knobs has soooo many applications that it would be a shame to link it inexorably to the pre. 

 

[sahib]

Hi Samuel,

In this system we do not have to think about the gain range at all. Analogue side is designed as usual in analogue way. All we are doing is having a digital interface to control some servomotors and relays.

DC,

You can control as many potentiometers as you wish. It is a matter of either using multi gang potentiometers or mechanically coupling them to a single servo. You can even connect the servos in parallel and have multiple servos running all at the same time from the same move command. Obviously increasing the cost of servo but it is an option.

By the way if I told you how many people asked me to do what you said about monitors would you believe? May be it's time I did it now.

 

[dcharrison]

Yeah.  Monitor control is a serious pain and some monitor controllers cost more than a nice console!

 

[Andy Peters]

It just struck me how many folks would like to be able to reach the volume controls of their powered monitors from the mix position.  When you are coming straight out of the converters and the phone starts to ring, it's a real panic fishing around with a mouse to kill the volume.  Passive attenuators are great, but a rc servo on the monitor would be as transparent as you can get!  Especially if a single UI could control 2 pots! (or 6 for 5.1)  How does one-to-many work in this topology?

I built up an IR remote volume control using a PGA2310, a microcontroller and INA217 and DRV134 for balanced I/O. The original firmware works with the common RC-5 IR protocol, and a newer version uses the NEC protocol that's used by the stick-of-gum Apple Remote. I built it because my old-skool NAD stereo preamp does not have a remote control!

The tweaky mastering guys might disapprove of three more op-amps in the signal path but it's probably fine and dandy for normal users.

-a

 

[dcharrison]

The tweaky mastering guys might disapprove of three more op-amps in the signal path but it's probably fine and dandy for normal users.

-a

You know some normal users?

 

[Andy Peters]

The tweaky mastering guys might disapprove of three more op-amps in the signal path but it's probably fine and dandy for normal users.

-a

You know some normal users?

Well, my wife, for one, who likes to be able to mute commercials!

-a

 

[JohnRoberts]

I'm thinking about a smart commercial ducker that uses the same song recognition software they use on web to ID songs.. Learn commercial's signature pattern and after every time duck them a little more. Until they're gone...

JR

 

[Larrchild]

If it could just grab the words "Male Enhancement", or "A Simple Capsule" I'd be pretty happy.

I really like this motorized control idea. We need a wifi or usb port and an app that runs on a pc.

 

[sahib]

Although my existing servo controller is RS232, I have used a little USB to RS232 module called MM232R (from a local company that produces) and it works a treat. But since a high speed is not required for this application a micro with USB port can also be used. Writing an independent control software is not much of a problem but a plug-in requires more work. I asked a friend of mine to see if he would do it, and at what cost. We'll see.

 

[mattnj]

What sort of control protocol are you thinking of? Are you still thinking about designing to interface with the Yamaha consoles? On live shows that are still using PM5Ds or even analog consoles have been using the Aphex 1788 remote control preamp system, so that the pres are at the stage and mic signals don't have to go through a huge mult.  Also splitting to monitors and FOH after the mic pre is also useful.  But.....these pres do not interface directly with the Yamaha protocol, which would be reaaaaalllly nice.  I guess I'm posting to support your idea as an end user since I don't know much about it.  But I would be willing to help in any way possible. I do have access to the Yamaha gear and documents.....Thanks.

 

[Andy Peters]

What sort of control protocol are you thinking of? Are you still thinking about designing to interface with the Yamaha consoles? On live shows that are still using PM5Ds or even analog consoles have been using the Aphex 1788 remote control preamp system, so that the pres are at the stage and mic signals don't have to go through a huge mult.  Also splitting to monitors and FOH after the mic pre is also useful.  But.....these pres do not interface directly with the Yamaha protocol, which would be reaaaaalllly nice.  I guess I'm posting to support your idea as an end user since I don't know much about it.  But I would be willing to help in any way possible. I do have access to the Yamaha gear and documents.....Thanks.

Well, if we knew what messages Yamaha sends to indicate control (specifically gain, but perhaps pad, too) changes, then it's a simple matter of intercepting the commands, interpreting them and sending the correct control word to the correct PGA2500.

-a

 

[sahib]

Nielsk's intention was to use through Yamaha AD8HD. I have no idea what the command protocol is like. As Andy said if you have access to the command protocol would you be able to post it?

 

[Larrchild]

A generic app with command  protocol "templates" would be ideal.

 

[mattnj]

Larrchild: Yeah. That's honestly what I was thinking.  Adding that versatility would be great in my world to be able to mix and match, Aphex, Yamaha and DIY pres and control the entire array from the console or remote.
sahib: I'm going to look into "reverse engineering" the Yamaha protocol.  Any ideas on where to start? All I have right now is the pinout and a usb to 232 converter.

 

[Andy Peters]

Larrchild: Yeah. That's honestly what I was thinking.  Adding that versatility would be great in my world to be able to mix and match, Aphex, Yamaha and DIY pres and control the entire array from the console or remote.
sahib: I'm going to look into "reverse engineering" the Yamaha protocol.  Any ideas on where to start? All I have right now is the pinout and a usb to 232 converter.

Is it really RS232?

If so, then an RS232 protocol analyzer is a useful tool. There are software analyzers available, in two flavors: one lives as a device driver and can "spy" on data, and the other connects to the actual signal wires. In either case, you should just send different commands (turn a gain knob, etc) and see what happens.

Yamaha should really open up this spec.

-a

 

[Larrchild]

Can hyperterminal be set to "promiscuous" read-only mode? Just connect rx and gnd?

 

[nielsk]

Actually , the Yamaha remote port is RS422(just a balanced 232, correct?) I believe the Ahpex is MIDI, they say the 1788RC will convert the Yamaha protocol.
It seems as if the protocol must be published somewhere, as Lightviper has a software controller for it...but I figured there must be a program / device to plug it in to and read the data stream.....

 

[mattnj]

I'm trying to do some experimentation with the Yamaha devices with YamMon from Lightviper, but the program won't run! I think I will be able to get somewhere using this program if I ever get it to work....