Anyone ever done a refret?

[kiira]

I know this isn't electronics oriented so I put it in the Brewery, but I've found that many P-Pro members are multi-talented. Besides, I sometimes get weird receptions in forums where people don't know me. bLoRgz :-(

I've done a bit of fiddling around with guitar adjustment and repairs and mods and refins and I have a Japanese (as opposed to the inferior (I've heard) Chinese) made fender Jagmaster which I like a lot except for one thing... the vintage style frets. All of my other guitars have quite large frets on them ... I think it's called 6100 and I'm just so used to using them with the old style consant radius neck like the Jagmaster has. My main guitar has a '63 Jaguar neck which I had refretted with 6100s when it got its first refret.

Anyway, I decided to take the big plunge and try doing a refret myself... hey!The liklihood of  failure never stopped me before!   Since I probably won't be doing a lot of this (though who knows?) I was wondering what the minimum in tools I could get by with  and what is the best place to get them online might be? I'm thinking something to use as a leveler and a fret file to restore the right curve after I get them flat? Unless they're glued in I won't need a fret remover, plus, I might be able to make one anyway by grinding a regular pair of end cutter style cutters.   I've had good luck with the gently working a brand new utility cutter blade slowly under the fret until I get it out some and can get some good pliers on the fret.

As far as the curvature (it's the Leo vintage standard 7 1/4") I thought I'd build a simple fret curvature machine (there's plans for them all over, from simple to complex) or else buy one of the sets of 22 pre-curved fret sets that some folks sell. Not sure yet. 

This guitar has a pair of 1978-ish DiMarzio PAF reissues (the original pickups were pretty awful I thought ) and I put a Tone-King whammy on it, mainly just to see how the Tone-King worked before I went to all the trouble of routing the custom swamp ash body I intended to use it with (it's quite similar to a Floyd route but the similarity ends there). The Tone King works VERY well! I was about to give give up on whammys until I tried it (Hey if Jake E. Lee can do it so can I! Well... maybe

Here's the guitar before I put the old DiMarzio's on it. It has High output Tonerider pickups, which are really nice but these were too high output for wjat I was looking for. What I'd really like for this guitar would be a pair of cream P-90s, no dog ear variety. I' need a custom pickguard for that though and I'm a bit short on the bling for that right now.

Anyway.. as usual, any advice is much appreciated.

Kiira

 

[Emperor-TK]

Kiira,

I've done a few refrets and many fret levelings.  Get the fretwork basics book from Stewart MacDonald (www.stewmac.com).  It covers everything you will need to know.  You can also buy all the tools you will need from them too, but you can also find similar tools elsewhere for cheaper.  As far as fret benders go, I've had good luck bending them by hand.  Precision isn't required, as long as you get a smaller radius than your fretboard and don't kink them.  If you want to take the fretjob to the next level and don't mind a road trip (circa 3 hours from Charm City), you are more than welcome to stop by and use my neck jig for the fret leveling.

-Chris

 

[Freddy G]

Kiira,
I do 3 or more refrets per week....lots of snags to watch for but I can walk you through it.
Freddy

 

[tv]

I did it once, circa 15yr ago. Jaco style out, my no-style in.

 

[mrphotodude]

+1 on the stewmac stuff. I have a few files from them and have made a few of my own custom for doing refretting.
Its a precise thing and you need to take it slow. I can do a level and crown in about an hour and half, but i have done several...
For a refret....
some tips...get a soldering iron with a flat tip...and when you go to pull out the old frets, you need some flat cutters like this:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Pullers,_nippers,_sizing/1/Fret_Cutter/Pictures.html#details
i took some regular storebought ones and used a grinder to get a flat top area and they have served well.
You need to heat up the fretwire by moving the tip across the fretwire very slowly. This will soften the wood a bit and tends to not break and pull apart the wood so much when you pull the frets out. It will also loosen any glue used.
You need to ***** the neck...see how straight it is and if you need to adjust it or level it.
you know what..
PM me your address...i will photocopy a gibson repair guide for luthiers i have and send it to you.
It will show you how to make a few tools of your own too.

but the best advice...
do a crap guitar for fun on a few frets first. Getting the angle and pressure right is crucial. I tend to make a sharper contact point which i feel helps with innotation.
hell, i will send you a few precut fretwires to shove in some wood you can practice with.

 

[jackies]

Amongst many other things, which I did without prior experience, proper equimpent or any knowledge of the subject,  I refretted a couple guitars... Using basic metalworking clamp.. Turned out pretty good! Nothing to be scared of..

 

[kiira]

Wow! Thanks for all the feedback guys. I have an old fubarred neck i can practice on ... and then the first job will be removing the frets from the Jag neck. I do have the Hiscock book. I have an old pair of diagonal cutters I'll try grinding down and use the
soldering iron trick.

thanks again!

Kiira

 

[Gustav]

I just had to post this here, even though it doesnt help with your problem at all.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/2009-%24100-tele-challenge/148314-completed-scattesquire.html

Gustav

 

[mrphotodude]

gustav...i have always wanted to make a tele like that...
there is a guy down the road from me that builds extremly overpriced  guitars like that...
a guy named wayne charvel. of the charvel jackson/charvel/wayne guitars fame....
i have heard he is the most bitter person though...if you mention jackson...he starts ranting and raving.
Bernie Rico used to live by me too(b.c. rich).
I guess its luthier heaven out here.
Stewmac has used to have "tech tips" every month in their catalog. I think they made a book out of it.
It is articles and advice sent in from techs around the country.
there are some tips here: http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/
i have always been happy with stewmac. for finishes ect try http://www.reranch.com/
guitar reranch offers aerosal cans of premixed nitrocellulose lacquer already tinted with factory colors such as the cherry red for sg's ect...

www.guitarpartsresource.com is great for parts in general as well.

 

[kiira]

Ok, one initial question. I know I have to buy a fret file, there's no fudging that. But for a fret level would this work? I have a piece of very flat steel, used to be the base of a large machinists square used on a surface table. What if I wrapped or attached good quality wet or dry paper to that - it's 8" long by 1 .5" wide - and used that to level the frets as an alternative to buyings a stone(s)?

thanks,

Kiira

 

[Freddy G]

Yes that will certainly work...as long as it is reasonably flat

 

[Emperor-TK]

I almost feel hesitant to post since Freddy showed up, but...    ;D

Quick advice....I'd definitely use self stick sandpaper on your steel bar rather than trying to wrap it with regular sandpaper.  Probably best too if the paper spans the full 8" length without gaps.

 

[Freddy G]

I almost feel hesitant to post since Freddy showed up, but...    ;D

Quick advice....I'd definitely use self stick sandpaper on your steel bar rather than trying to wrap it with regular sandpaper.  Probably best too if the paper spans the full 8" length without gaps.

Yep, good advice! I would also adjust the truss rod so that the neck is straight (no relief) before leveling.
Make sure you level in a small amount of drop-off from the 15th fret up.

 

[kiira]

Hey Freddy and Emporor Tomaro Kethup,

Ok that is good news! I'll use that mild spray on adhesive, use the entire 8" of course  and start with ummm, 220ish?

One question for ETP though, what do you mean by "Make sure you level in a small amount of drop-off from the 15th fret up."

thanks!

Kiira

 

[seavote]

not sure how much you know and im certainly no expert. i did one leveling job on my own guit( nao a refret) . but the technique i used was to run a sharpy marker across all the frets. then  lightly pass over the frets with a radiused sanding block.(all relief removed from neck and the neck supported from headstock to neck pocket .the spots where the sharpy disapears are the highest. sand till they're gone. is this the standard method?? not sure but i think i got this from dan erlewine). to polish the frets after i took an old credit card and cut a slot in it . the frets then stuck through the card when it was placed on the neck and i was able to polish the frets with fine steel wool with out scratching the fretboard wood across the grain. hope some of this can help.

 

[Freddy G]

Kiira,
make sure you wrap the leading edge of the sandpaper over the block, otherwise the frets will catch it and tear it.
What I meant by "Make sure you level in a small amount of drop-off from the 15th fret up." is:
When you put a straight edge on the frets you want to see every fret from 1-15 touch the straight edge. Then from the 15th to the highest fret there should be a slight drop off in level meaning that the 16th fret should begin to have a very small gap between it and the straight edge and the last fret should have the largest gap....maybe the thickness of a business card for the outside edges of the fingerboard at the highest fret  (the high E and low E) and more of a gap toward the centre of the fingerboard (maybe the thickness of 2-3 business cards at the highest fret).
If you do this on a small radius fingerboard then you can bring your action down lower and still be able to bend the high E and B strings starting at around the 12th fret without them choking out.
It's basically a compound radius you will be creating.
Good luck and don't hesitate with questions ;D
Freddy

 

[Freddy G]

I'm doing a fret dress tomorrow and I'll take photos and post them for you with explanations about how I do it.....it'll make it easier to digest.
Freddy