AT 4060 schematic?

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PRR

I am thinking the leakage from the backward bias diodes are the "resistor" I don't understand 100% why there are 4 diodes in each group and not just 2??

Also the AKG C60 IIRC schematic show how you can get the capsule voltage from the cathode bias node of the CF by how "far" above ground the bottom of the bias resistor that node sits.

The 4060 microphone seems to have more parts than are needed I think I can get rid of maybe 8 or more parts.
 
> I am thinking the leakage from the backward bias diodes are the "resistor"

That's the way I read it.

> I don't understand 100% why there are 4 diodes in each group and not just 2??

The grid-cathode swing of the tube is many tenths of a volt, and a single diode would tend to go forward-bias.

Also to raise the resistance. Assume the grid current is 1 nanoAmp. A single silicon junction at 1 milliAmp has 30Ω dynamic resistance. At a million times lower current, it would be 30 MegOhms. This is a usable value, but 2*30Meg= 60Meg (similar to the popular 70M-78M resistors often found in tube condensers) only costs $0.02 more.

> you can get the capsule voltage from the cathode bias node of the CF by how "far" above ground the bottom of the bias resistor that node sits.

Yes, and you avoid a coupling cap.

But this 4060 capsule seems to be biased up near 100V-120V on a 120V supply. We can't do that and also run the tube. Lower capsule bias reduces sensitivity and soon gets you into noise. If the grid and capsule bias is 110V, we want more than 120V on the tube plate. One thing leads to another, major re-engineering.

> more parts than are needed I think I can get rid of maybe 8 or more parts.

I'm with you, except what is there makes no drawing-board sense. Yet its gross performance is not much lower than an "optimized" WCF drawing 2.5 times the current, or a paralleled cathode follower eating 4 times the current. And where it is "worse", it is in the direction of asymmetric (2nd-order) warps that won't sound as bad as an "optimum" WCF pushed to its limits. I really think someone spent many-many hours listening and tweaking.

> no surface mount parts...it's all hole-thru construction

And at $1,500 list, they could afford a 100Meg resistor (heck, 4*22Megs is only $0.48 installed). Yet AT generally knows what they are doing. So I'd guess that a zero-bias diode is a good high-Meg resistor for this purpose.

> 150dB is ridiculously loud....

It is not likely to be found in a studio. 126 to 134 is often all you need. But the capsules can often get into that 150+ range without distorting. The AKG C 414 reaches 140dB SPL straight, 150 and 160 with -10 and -20dB pads on the capsule. (The transformer version is 6dB less at 30Hz.) The limit is often the output amplifier: 160dB SPL at the 414's unpadded sensitivity would be 25V RMS! With -20dB pad, "just" 2.5V, which fits under the internal ~9V supply rail.

If the 4060 is really 2mV at 74dB SPL (rated 20mV at 94dB SPL), then 150dB SPL is 12V. They don't give a minimum load, so I would assume I could load it in 200 ohms. 12V in 200 is almost 1 Watt! And the mike claims to only eat 120V at 2mA, 0.24 watts. Even if we assume 2K load, that's 0.072 watts, and I know you can't hardly do that with triodes eating 0.24 watts.
 
Excellent thread!

Gus asked me to post this sketch

GusWCFmic.GIF


:thumb:
 
Grid leak, and/or leakage across the diodes.

Check out the Royer mod schematics - he uses grid leak very effectively.

Stewart
 
That schematic is just an idea(not built) about a simple version of the circuit. I am not sure of how the grid bias diode used will work.

The more I think about the AT4060 I am thinking like PRR that maybe it was "designed" like it was for a reason.

I wonder if it was "designed" by someone that did not know what they were doing and got a sound or if it was designed by someone that knew what they were doing.

With the AT 4060 I wonder what lam alloy was used?

The circuit is something I would go about in another way. I think of CFs as clean and adjusting a Plate out circuit as the way to get a "sound".

Maybe someone(s) were told to design around a current tube 6922 sovtec and knew the 6dj8 types suck as a plate out tube in a microphone circuit (there is one microphone that uses it, that I have not heard, thats suppose to be good) and this is what they designed.

Kris The capsule voltage is the voltage at the plate of the bottom tube. That voltage charges the the capsule. The top tube bias is set by the two diodes in the cathode to bottom tube plate.

I wonder if resistors would sound better in the AT 4060.

Tim I wonder if there is a leakage path in your 4050 via diodes or a fet or? that is draining your charge on the front of your capsule?
 
[quote author="Gus"]...Tim I wonder if there is a leakage path in your 4050 via diodes or a fet or? that is draining your charge on the front of your capsule?[/quote]Sounds like a good thing to look for because it would exactly match the symptoms. I'll give them a call and see if I can get schematics. The circuit is all surface mount except for the switches and a few caps. There are lots of diodes. I have pics of the innards but haven't had time to put them up yet - will get there eventually. If I get schematics, I may start a "Fix my 4050" thread.
 
caveat: i am a total novice. ok here goes:

would it be possible to use the 4060 capsule and give it a circuit (g7 for ex.?) to enable it as a multipattern mic? i happen to have a 4047, which i'm told has the same capsule. oddly enough, it has a pin on the "other" side of the capsule, making me think that one could solder a wire to it. does anyone have any thoughts on this? the g7 uses 160v across the capsule, the 4060 does about 120v? the reason I ask, is that i may have access to a rather beat up 4060, sans power supply. i'm thinking that it would be neat to use that capsule/body to make a multipattern mic. but only if that capsule is suitable for being polarized on the back and if it will work at perhaps higher polarization voltages. that pin hanging there makes me think its possible. am i all wet? 'cause after all, if its possible, why ain't AT doing it already?...

james
 
James post a picture of the AT 4047 capsule if you can. This will help with your question.

The only AT microphones I have been inside are the 4033s and a 4040, both were cardiod only designs.
 
Hi there...I just picked up one of these mic's real cheap (AT4060) without the power supply...did anyone ever get a schematic of the supply when they were getting the schematic for the mic? I could probably email AT and ask but was hoping someone might see this tonight and have one they could pass my way....my address is tvendt at comcast period net we all know how to recode addresses I think
Thanks all
TP
 
can i do someting .modify for my 4060 sound beter???? :roll:
http://groupdiy.twin-x.com/displayimage.php?album=40&pos=24
 
IM jumping in here so this may have been covered, the XLR type 6 pin connecor for the 4060 HAS to be a Neutrik connector, a Switchcraft will not work.
May already know that...
 
Hi Mike...it is a 6 pin neutrik. I have the part number around here somewhere. I bought, several years ago, a Groove Tubes tube mic (which uses the same connectors) without the power supply and had to build one from scratch. I was able to get the connectors from Mouser here in the states. The 4060 I have came without the P/S as well and it looks like the power supply I built for the G/T mic will work....I think the pinouts are different on the 6 pin connector but I'll just put another mic connector in the side of the case wired for the 4060. I can't see where I'll be using both mics at once. I have read very good reviews on the 4060....I'm going to leave it stock until, and if, I see that a mod will make a marked improvement.
TP
 
Since I was whining earlier about my 4050 being messed up, I figured that I should post what happened when I finally sent it back to AT for repair. (I bought it used off eBay without a box, and of course it had no warranty.) The techs at AT couldn't seem to duplicate my "intermittent" problem, so they replaced all of the circuit boards, sent it back to me in a new AT foam lined case, and charged me $0.00. That's right - ZERO DOLLARS! Needless to say, I am very impressed with their customer service!

BTW, when I had it apart, I took pics of the capsule, boards, etc. I will put them up as soon as I get a chance. I also have a 4047. I'll take it apart and get some pics of it as well.
 
AT4050 capsule is similar in design to the old CK12 except that the acoustic resistance to the centre chamber is done with some sort of fabric (Gore-tex?) instead of the rings of holes on the chamber plates, and there is a resonator plate in front of each diaphragm.

-Dale
 
[quote author="Flatpicker"] I also have a 4047. I'll take it apart and get some pics of it as well.[/quote]

Yes please! I'd love to see some nice shots of the capsule - that's the one that was supposed to mimic the U47.(!)
 
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