bazz fuzz pedal transistor type help

[Disease8]

hi a beginner here just been trying to make the bazz fuzz:
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/holmberg/images/bazz.jpg


I know its really simple but I have been having trouble. I dont have the correct transistor 2n5088 so I am trying to use an S9014 instead as it's just what I have at hand.  Its not sounding right . Its more like an overdrive than a fuzz just adding a tiny bit of bite to the signal not really all out distorted fuzz effect.
I have no idea what I am doing and it too me 4 hours just to get any signal out of it at all (I tried following several versions of the circuit finding that the original gave me the best results). I also burned out my 2n5088  hence needing to use other transistors.
s9014:
http://www.mycoelectri.com/UploadFile/2010920163034530.pdf
2n5088:
https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/MM/MMBT5089.pdf

I am a bit confused by it all but persevering!

 

[abbey road d enfer]

hi a beginner here just been trying to make the bazz fuzz:
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/holmberg/images/bazz.jpg


I know its really simple but I have been having trouble. I dont have the correct transistor 2n5088 so I am trying to use an S9014 instead as it's just what I have at hand.  Its not sounding right . Its more like an overdrive than a fuzz just adding a tiny bit of bite to the signal not really all out distorted fuzz effect.
I have no idea what I am doing and it too me 4 hours just to get any signal out of it at all (I tried following several versions of the circuit finding that the original gave me the best results). I also burned out my 2n5088  hence needing to use other transistors.
s9014:
http://www.mycoelectri.com/UploadFile/2010920163034530.pdf
2n5088:
https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/MM/MMBT5089.pdf

I am a bit confused by it all but persevering!

I don't think the problem comes from replacing the transistor because just any NPN transistor can do the job.
This circuit has many limitations; I don't think it can work satisfactorily with a passive bass. The input impedance is too low. With a passive bass it may work only with all controls cranked up.

 

[Disease8]

THANKS i AM USING A GUITAR

getting a pretty decent overdrive but its not quite all out fuzz. Does the transistor need more juice? less resistance on the 9v input?

also this circuit seems to work fine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv5iQ_aenX8

everyone seems to have a different variation. I just need more fuzz...

 

[Disease8]

what is I made another exact copy of the circuit then I had this one feed into the next one! That would increase the distortion right?

 

[midwayfair]

That's pretty much exactly what the buzz box does. You can stick a booster in front of it, too.

This circuit sounds FAR better with a darlington like the MPSA13, though.

One of Paul's other videos has a transistor comparison between the 5088 and MPSA13. If yours doesn't sound like this then something might be wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0PDQ6zMU4g

If you think something's wrong, measure your voltages and recheck all your connections.

 

[Disease8]

thanks! Yes I guess it is the fact I dont have the right transistor!

 

[L´Andratté]

I have built it with a MPSA13 darlington and it was a really nice fuzz with my (passive) bass, gave it to friend who loves it with his (also passive) guitar. Spend more time troubleshooting, you will be rewarded

 

[Disease8]

cool thanks for the help so far!

I am pretty happy with the fuzz actually just been jamming for a couple hours. Will upload a vid soon.
Just wondering I have a really loud high pitched hiss and a low hum. Any idea what it could be? Its not ground a it doesnt go away when I touch metal on the guitar.
#

 

[Disease8]

cool thanks for the help so far!

I am pretty happy with the fuzz actually just been jamming for a couple hours. Will upload a vid soon.
Just wondering I have a really loud high pitched hiss and a low hum. Any idea what it could be? Its not ground a it doesnt go away when I touch metal on the guitar.
#

cheers man will try and get one. doing it low cost/no cost. anywhere I can find one for free?

 

[Disease8]

any ideas why it might be making a huge amount of white noise?
when I play it gets quieter like my guitar notes are modulating its amplitude...
there is low hum too not that low like around 200hz ...

is it from bad soldering? I do not think it is ground problem..

 

[crochambeau]

Hard to tell with a free-form build.

Is it possible to build another one and see if you can recreate the effect? Could be an error, could be a really power 200 hz radio source that needs shielding.

Another option to self supporting point to point is hammering a bunch of nails into a board and using that as a framework, like this:

...or strip board, but I realize that takes a bit of the adventure out of it.

 

[Andy Peters]

is it from bad soldering? I do not think it is ground problem..

I believe that perf board is still available at Radio Shack. Build the circuit on that instead of trying to do the rat's nest thing you have.

 

[Disease8]

Hard to tell with a free-form build.

Is it possible to build another one and see if you can recreate the effect? Could be an error, could be a really power 200 hz radio source that needs shielding.

Another option to self supporting point to point is hammering a bunch of nails into a board and using that as a framework, like this:

...or strip board, but I realize that takes a bit of the adventure out of it.

hey thanks.. what is the advantage of mounting it on nails like that? good idea though to keep it neat. Would a metal enclosure shield it from interference? TBH it doesnt sound like radio intereference more like an electrical problem. I moved around the room and it stays the same its a constant noise. Both the white noise hiss and the lowere hum. Thanks!

 

[Disease8]

is it from bad soldering? I do not think it is ground problem..

I believe that perf board is still available at Radio Shack. Build the circuit on that instead of trying to do the rat's nest thing you have.

actually I have some perf board but it baffled me and I made my decent transistor melt! just find it much simpler at the moment doing it freehand.  I will give the board another go, i didn't realise you could use a stanley knife to separate the strips. is perf board with the strips right?

 

[Disease8]

here is an example, its played badly so dont complain.. -_-

https://soundcloud.com/jdominicjackson/pooop

also I ordered from fairchilds. still concerned about this horrible noise issue will rebuild with newer components.
gotta look for an enclosure next May reuse my old broken VOX distortion pedal for parts. But kinda want to fix it and see how it sounds, I remember that was more a fuzz sound anyway

http://www.effectsdatabase.com/model/vox/vshaped/1901#.

 

[crochambeau]

hey thanks.. what is the advantage of mounting it on nails like that?

Structural integrity when compared to the total free form rats nest you've got going, don't have to be as careful/fidgety with it. You can, if need be hang a guitar cable right off of it and drag it around the room. Though the one I built doubles as a radio receiver, hence:

Metal shell is also a nice protective element, I agree EMF is probably not your problem..  I mentioned that in a sort of tongue in cheek way given what day it was.

Looks like the resistor in your build has seen a fair bit of heat, at this point honestly the only advice I have is build another one (from fresh parts) and see what happens. Don't be afraid of perf, it's easier on everything. If you're burning parts on perf and not free-form, I'd suggest simply loading the parts in from the other side on perf and keeping your wiring beneath the board. 

Really though, if the perf was giving you grief it's possible the pads were oxidized and therefore somewhat resistant to heat. Making sure everything is clean beforehand paves the way to an easier install.

 

[midwayfair]

Spend $2.80.

 

[Disease8]

guys thanks a lot for your help.
I believe you are right about the resistor as I changed it and the hiss goes away. Only problem so does the distortion and 10k resistors make good distortion but create the horrible hiss? it becomes a simple clean preamp with other resistors. Having some issues with the basics of electronic theory. I want to drive the transistor right? so does that mean feeding it slightly more + amps than it is meant to handle?
On the spec sheet it says it can take 700ma so I used a ohm calculator[http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohmslaw.htm] to work out what resistor I would need to give it that from a 9v battery it said 12ohms. Am I doing this correctly?  I put 0.7 in amps, 9v in volts = 12ohm.. I guess I am thinking about this totally wrong as in the original schematic it says 10kohm. I thought the more resistance the less current coming into the transistor resulting in less drive? I worked out that with a 10kohm resistor the amplitude is only 0.0009 ? So is the distortion caused from under driving the transistor?

I am using this s8550 transistor now. http://www.unisonic.com.tw/datasheet/S8550.pdf
I had good results from it at some point with a very clean and bright distortion coming out with no hiss at all. I stupidly didn't take note of the combination of caps and resistors I used to get that. I changed it for some reason and ended back in a full circle to the hissy sludgy sound in the recording.  I guess some of the components might be damaged from heat, changing the resistor is making a big difference but also changing the input caps makes a massive diff, seems more than just the "more or less bass" result described in the instructional videos and documents i have been reading.

Anyway if you could help guide me onto the right track would be much obliged.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

guys thanks a lot for your help.
I believe you are right about the resistor as I changed it and the hiss goes away.

Did you just change the resistor for a fresh one or have you changed its value?

Only problem so does the distortion and 10k resistors make good distortion but create the horrible hiss?

No, the problem comes from incorrect match between the source impedance and the operating current of the transistor.

  it becomes a simple clean preamp with other resistors. Having some issues with the basics of electronic theory. I want to drive the transistor right? so does that mean feeding it slightly more + amps than it is meant to handle?
On the spec sheet it says it can take 700ma so I used a ohm calculator[http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohmslaw.htm] to work out what resistor I would need to give it that from a 9v battery it said 12ohms. Am I doing this correctly?  I put 0.7 in amps, 9v in volts = 12ohm.. I guess I am thinking about this totally wrong as in the original schematic it says 10kohm.

700mA is MAXIMUM rating, that should not be exceeded; it is NOT a recommended operation point.

I thought the more resistance the less current coming into the transistor resulting in less drive?

Drive is a matter of signal amplitude and impedance coming from the source (the electric guitar)

I worked out that with a 10kohm resistor the amplitude is only 0.0009 ?

That's 0.9mA, which is plenty good to operate a transistor, but in fact too much for the application. Considering the source impedance (quite high for an electric gtr), the transistor should be operated with less current (10-20 times less); there is a scientific relationship between the source impedance and the operating current, and you are clearly out of the comfort zone.
This circuit should be preceded with a buffer that would accept the high impedance of the gtr and deliver low impedance to the fuzz circuit.
Alternatively, the 10k res should be increased to 100-220k; you must experiment with it.

So is the distortion caused from under driving the transistor?

Distortion is intentional in this circuit.

I am using this s8550 transistor now. http://www.unisonic.com.tw/datasheet/S8550.pdf

As long as the transistor is low-noise npn type with hfe >200, there should not be much difference.

 

[Disease8]

guys thanks a lot for your help.
I believe you are right about the resistor as I changed it and the hiss goes away.

Did you just change the resistor for a fresh one or have you changed its value?

Only problem so does the distortion and 10k resistors make good distortion but create the horrible hiss?

No, the problem comes from incorrect match between the source impedance and the operating current of the transistor.

  it becomes a simple clean preamp with other resistors. Having some issues with the basics of electronic theory. I want to drive the transistor right? so does that mean feeding it slightly more + amps than it is meant to handle?
On the spec sheet it says it can take 700ma so I used a ohm calculator[http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohmslaw.htm] to work out what resistor I would need to give it that from a 9v battery it said 12ohms. Am I doing this correctly?  I put 0.7 in amps, 9v in volts = 12ohm.. I guess I am thinking about this totally wrong as in the original schematic it says 10kohm.

700mA is MAXIMUM rating, that should not be exceeded; it is NOT a recommended operation point.

I thought the more resistance the less current coming into the transistor resulting in less drive?

Drive is a matter of signal amplitude and impedance coming from the source (the electric guitar)

I worked out that with a 10kohm resistor the amplitude is only 0.0009 ?

That's 0.9mA, which is plenty good to operate a transistor, but in fact too much for the application. Considering the source impedance (quite high for an electric gtr), the transistor should be operated with less current (10-20 times less); there is a scientific relationship between the source impedance and the operating current, and you are clearly out of the comfort zone.
This circuit should be preceded with a buffer that would accept the high impedance of the gtr and deliver low impedance to the fuzz circuit.
Alternatively, the 10k res should be increased to 100-220k; you must experiment with it.

So is the distortion caused from under driving the transistor?

Distortion is intentional in this circuit.

I am using this s8550 transistor now. http://www.unisonic.com.tw/datasheet/S8550.pdf

As long as the transistor is low-noise npn type with hfe >200, there should not be much difference.

I really appreciate the time you put in to answer my questions!
the 8550 is actually pnp so not sure why it was working so well. Gave a better drive sound than the s9015 which seems to match the mpsa18 more closely?

You are right I am out of my depth, learning as I go and trying to use salvaged parts.

How come the original schematic works so well for other people and it only uses 10k resistor?


How do I match the right ohms on the DC 9V resistor to the correct input current of the transistor? Can I work that out with the transistors schematics? http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/37887/SAMSUNG/S9015.html

At the moment I am using the s9015 with two 10uf caps and a 10k resistor. The sound is not a natural sounding distortion at all it sounds compressed and gated with hardly any decay. All the definition of the guitar is gone unlike the 8550 (when I had it sounding its best).

See schematic with two 10uf caps, 10k resistor..etc.. http://personal.inet.fi/koti/holmberg/images/bazz.jpg

Will try it with a much higher resistor again.


Cheers bud really appreciate your time.