Beginners, where to start

[Blue Jinn]

Learning to read a schematic is basic, and kits are a great place to start, PAIA and GuitarGadgets are good sources, or BYOClone. I don't really know *why* a lot of what goes on goes on, and I've yet to really grasp a plate curve, plate dissipation etc. I'll get there. OK, I'll say it I have a LIBERAL ARTS DEGREE!

So I'm not going to design anything anytime soon. That said, I can read a schematic, and have a general idea about what happens at a particular place in it. AC signal goes in here, comes out here a little bigger, dc goes here, but don't want dc here so have a capacitor to block it. I don't really understand *why* I don't want dc here or ac there, but I can read the sheet music. I suppose I don't know *why* a C7th resolves into a Fmaj it just does. Also, they didn't have PCB's in 1940. I know I can't fit a G7 into an Apex 460 body. (I've tried, it doesn't fit....) If I want to (and I'm not so sure I want to) there is no reason I can't wire the thing "point to point" one step at a time, this wire to pin 1 this resister to pin 2 etc etc. But again, you gotta be able to read the music to know the F# from the C. And then when it doesn't work being able to go, "Oh there I have C1 in the wrong place" (I did that with a Royer mod recently, had a capacitor inthe wrong place, thanks to reading schematics and a recent trhead here -- no AC ground path for the capsule DUH! )

I'm confindent I can build e.g.. the NYDave one bottle. Are you going to try and a bake a cake without knowing the difference between flour and sugar and 1 gram and 1 cup?

Another really really good place to start is Craig Anderton's Electronic Projects for Musicians. A lot of the kits are sadly not available anymore but the book starts out explaining schematic symbology with  drawings of each thing too and each project has a good explanation of what happens in the circuit.  Also, the old Popular Electronics, Radio-Electronics, and a few other magazines, were great sources. The project construction details generally explained a great deal of teh design theory. PAIA's Tube Head is a good example of that. You can find those at used book stores often.

 

[G-Sun]

(sorry burglar, not meaning to hijack your thread, just adding what I hope is a useful perspective for you)

I think that  people get mostly upset when you´re not willing to read the existing information here in the threads and, instead asking the same basic questions already answered.

Well, my question is: How easy accessible is that existing information? And why is there not something like wiki.groupdiy.com ?

Don't get me wrong: I've found a lot of useful information here, gotten a lot of helpful advice and know perfectly well that my AudioDIY-results would have been zero if it wasn't for the generosity, skills and the helpfulness of a lot of people here on the forum.

 

[gemini86]

I don't know what the problem is g-sun. I know the search function isn't perfect, but I'm always able to find the answers I've been looking for over the years here. You need to try lots of different search terms, as some people don't say things the same way you might. (Like searching for "caps" on farnell,  its not going to get you much useful info)

 

[G-Sun]

I don't know what the problem is g-sun. I know the search function isn't perfect, but I'm always able to find the answers I've been looking for over the years here. You need to try lots of different search terms, as some people don't say things the same way you might. (Like searching for "caps" on farnell,  its not going to get you much useful info)

Well, I'm ok as long as people don't get upset about me asking questions that may have been answered 30 times before. I'll try to find the answers myself, but then, if I don't find it, I just ask

 

[ricardo]

But, when people get upset if you're not willing to read at least two books, and taking a Bachelor in electronics before starting building something, well then.. it's just not my approach to life. .... some people here really believe that life is and should be very hard and difficult

Actually life is very hard and difficult if you start something like SSL Bus Comp without some experience and at least some understanding of how & what it is trying to do.

When I was at uni, I spent a lot of time repairing "kits" for friends; most of whom were budding Electronic Engineers too.  There are a lot of dead projects along the way to gaining experience and it is better to gain this with something cheap.  However, I remember the days when transistors came in little cardboard boxes and were a week's pocket money so a disaster for a boy.

I recommend The Art of Electronics - Horowitz & Hill cos I would have been very happy if something like it was available when I was learning.  It is not just a beginner's book though it explains simply & clearly many things that beginners need to learn.  eg DC biasing & conditions cos that is the 1st thing you need to look at if trouble shooting.

But it goes all the way up to guru level and is a fine reference too.  If you continue doing DIY electronics, you will eventually buy this so why not buy it now when you need it and will benefit most?

How many of us old fogeys can put together something like SSL Bus Comp and get EVERY component in correctly?

Burglar, you are already doing the right thing building kits.  I second the recommendation to read Practical Wireless and also the British Wireless World.  If you live near a good library, spend some time looking through old magazines which describe similar stuff to what you want to build.

There is satisfaction building your own stuff but it is even more satisfying if you understand what it is doing and maybe sort out some problem in the build yourself.

And if you have a problem you can't sort out yourself, it is much easier if you give the experts useful information about your problem.  To know what is "useful", you need to have some understanding of the circuit.

 

[s2udio]

To know what is "useful", you need to have some understanding of the circuit.

Nice Quote indeed

 

[s2udio]

How many of us old fogeys can put together something like SSL Bus Comp and get EVERY component in correctly?

Oh come on every one's allowed .....At least one foopah per build.......... :-[        ;D

 

[G-Sun]

I recommend The Art of Electronics - Horowitz & Hill cos I would have been very happy if something like it was available when I was learning.  It is not just a beginner's book though it explains simply & clearly many things that beginners need to learn.  eg DC biasing & conditions cos that is the 1st thing you need to look at if trouble shooting.

But it goes all the way up to guru level and is a fine reference too.  If you continue doing DIY electronics, you will eventually buy this so why not buy it now when you need it and will benefit most?

Nice advice Thanks!

 

[grantlack]

My approach is more like: What do I need to know to do this? Then I just start with what I can start with, learn on the way, and.. ask for help when I need it.

you won't get much RTFM or fire and brimstone out of most here, but the initial help with the basics is generally done with the understanding that you'll soon get your bearings and really try harder to Do It Yourself.  though i haven't seen such things posted by you in particular, reading "i'm not going to read 30+ pages to find ..." is disheartening.  in reading an entire support thread, you generally find what you're looking for- but also absorb a whole lot of other pertinent info.  it's how many of us non-engineers have slowly built up our knowledge (still limited in my case!) and challenged our curiosity.  if the research isn't a joy, then there isn't much hope past the world of kits.

I deffinately want to do my own builds, I don't yet have a passion for electronics, but I know I will once I start racking up my own kit.  I really enjoy the process of doing kits with instructions, I just need to take it to the next level to continue to get enjoyment out of it.

the passion for having passion is a great place to start.  just like with anything, expect growing pains!  i'd echo the book suggestions.  if the initial hurdle is too tough on your own, consider auditing a community college course on electrical circuits if you can find one.  once you understand the basics of a schematic i'd look at several basic preamps to see if you can pick out similarities.  some schematics even have the functional blocks (pad, phantom, etc) sectioned off, which will help recognition much easier.  the mitsos 312/M1 build docs come to mind as a great study this way, and the similarities between the 312 and m1 make for a good compare and contrast.

 

[G-Sun]

you won't get much RTFM or fire and brimstone out of most here, but the initial help with the basics is generally done with the understanding that you'll soon get your bearings and really try harder to Do It Yourself.  though i haven't seen such things posted by you in particular, reading "i'm not going to read 30+ pages to find ..." is disheartening.  in reading an entire support thread, you generally find what you're looking for- but also absorb a whole lot of other pertinent info.  it's how many of us non-engineers have slowly built up our knowledge (still limited in my case!) and challenged our curiosity.  if the research isn't a joy, then there isn't much hope past the world of kits.

There is a time to find the way yourself, and there's a time to ask someone who knows for the easiest way.
Hopefully, I can keep a good balance between those.

 

[abechap024]

Necessity is a real driving force to learning something. Buy the GSSL Pcb and get going! you don't even have to look at the schematic or understand how the darn thing works to "paint by colors" with the Bill of Materials and the numbered designations on the board. There is no shame in not fully understanding the circuit, especially if you just want use the finished product. And you WILL learn something every step of the way.

Get on the edge of that diving board and take the plunge!!
(just don't electrocute yourself when you hook up the mains. The wiring of the power transformer, you SHOULD understand before plug it in, not rocket science tho and its been done a million times before)

Cheers,
Abe

 

[Sredna]

There is no shame in not fully understanding the circuit.......

Let Him Who Fully Understand the Circuit Cast the First Stone!  ;D


Ehem, +1 for Horowitz & Hill

 

[burglar]

Really great posts guys,

I'm overwhelmed by the your generosity.  Thanks for taking the time to drop in all this info.  I'm getting there with Ohms law/engineering notation calculations/capacitors & I'm about to dive into diodes.  I've ordered "The Art Of Electronics - Horowitz & Hill" and have found "Retrobrad's" youtube electronics tutorials to be a great help as I am quite a visual person. 

Thanks again for all your suggestions.

B

 

[Sredna]

If you´re broke there´s the "international" version of "Art of electronics" for about $35-45.
Paperback, black&white but same content. Mostly from indians sellers at eBay.