Biasing a transistor

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that's a good idea.
Try this:
Replace the 825R resistor with a diode, anode (unbanded end) to ground, cathode (band) to emitter. That will clamp the emitter at -.6 volts which means anything positive on the base will turn on the xstor and light the led. If that isn't close enough you can replace the diode with another 2sc945, base to ground, emitter to emitter, collector open.

Good luck.
at first sight it seemed a good idea, but testing it indeed sticks at -0.6V approx according to simulator.
but than you have a constant flow 0,013818182 Amp between GND and -12V, if you replace the 12K going to -12V with 825 Ohm.
almost 3 x the amount of the circuit with the PNP transistor I'm trying to replace and you can't have the 12K in there or the led barely lightens up.
 
It sure can. Realize that an LED is going to require at least 10mA but powering it from +12 to -12 means 24V * 0.01A = 0.24W. If you only used one half of the supply, that would be 12V * 0.01A = 0.12A. But Eurosynth usually has +5V I believe in which case you could use that instead and now power is 5V * 0.01A = 0.05W.

Technically you could do even better than this because you could, in theory, make a DCDC converter that converted whatever voltage into just enough voltage required to power the LED which has a voltage drop between 2V and 4V. But just using 5V or a DCDC converter to make 5V from 12V (which is a very cheap part an a tiny package that makes 10's of mA) would be 0.05W which, again, is 5 times more efficient than your circuit.

Now, if you want the LED-on threshold to be near 0V, then you could use a PNP with a large emitter resistor from +12V to -12V and then drive the base of an NPN with LED and Rmax resistor from +12 to 0V. The PNP serves three purposes here:

1) The diode drop of the PNP shifts the NPN bias to compensate for it's diode drop (meaning the LED will start to turn on when the control voltage is just above 0V and not at 0.6V).
2) The PNP stage would consume very little power with it's large emitter resistor (47K would be 24V * 0.0005A = 0.012W) and the NPN LED driver would only consume power between +12 and 0V which would double the efficiency of your circuit with only one additional transistor and resistor. If 5V is available, again, much less still.
3) If Rmax is the NPN emitter resistor, it will provide feedback to yield a fairly linear voltage to current converter. This is good because LED brightness is proportional to current. With just the NPN, you will get an exponential converter which is almost certainly not what you want.

If you restated your objectives more clearly, I think you would get much better answers in this case. You would probably also benefit greatly from using LTSpice. This is precisely the sort of circuit that LTSpice will help you understand.
Thnx for the answer,

but check it out in the simulator
https://tinyurl.com/2l6m6rv5 (you can play with the voltage using the slider on the right side)
the current choose the easy path and that's the 825Ohm resistor to ground in contrary through the 12K going to -12V.
According to the simulator it technically still operates between the +12V and GND.


i can't place more components on to the board if you look a few posts back, throug hole parts that is.
Could you draw me your idea in the Falstad simulator too see what you mean?

my DIY PSU (Frequency Central Routemaster) indeed has +5V, but requires a different cable, i don't have.
I only got 16 pins to 10 pins cable.
 

*********, close to 4 times more efficient in Idle state over my circuity.
:eek:
THNX!

i need to add a bigger part (transistor) and remove one transistor, no resistor on the base needed, possible on the space i got.

Weirdly enough the current on the base decreases by adding more voltage, that's strange and amazing
Altough electronic was my study subject at school, the PNP always amazed me.
Even after seeing many or several video on the subject, now got to me.

here is an updated version yours.
https://tinyurl.com/2osnbl83added a variable voltage source, right click voltage source and click slider in the context menu.
 
that's a good idea.

at first sight it seemed a good idea, but testing it indeed sticks at -0.6V approx according to simulator.
but than you have a constant flow 0,013818182 Amp between GND and -12V, if you replace the 12K going to -12V with 825 Ohm.
almost 3 x the amount of the circuit with the PNP transistor I'm trying to replace and you can't have the 12K in there or the led barely lightens up.
How bright does the led have to be? Leds have become more efficient. Changing to 825 ohms is too big a jump. Try 5 or 6k. 2ma waste current.
 

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