"Boutique" opamps from chinese vendors. Anyone tested?

[camarada78]

I was looking for some smd components on Aliexpress and came across some "weird" opamps. Have you guys tried some?
(replacement for NE5532 and similars)
replaces OPA1612 / 5532

big flashy replacement for 5534/tl071

What you guys think? some of them are really expensive (U$15 per unit)

 

[camarada78]

 

[living sounds]

Totally unnecessary IMO. Bought one once, didn't work. Not even the LEDs.

 

[camarada78]

leds?

 

[Newmarket]

I see the Burson Audio parts have Profusion (THAT distributor) as one of their UK sellers. Very expensive. Looked at a datasheet. No noise figures stated

 

[user 37518]

Would like to see if they are better and cheaper than an LM4562, I bet not.

 

[Walter66]

Those are IC replacements that are not integrated build but using discrete components.
I once bought a discrete D/A converter from Ultra Analog in the 1990's, it was the same Mark Levinson used in their top of the line gear. It sounded much better compared to ordinary integrated converters from Philips etc. Accuphase did the same at that time, they build a discrete converter and aligned it manually for lowest THD. So discrete can be a big step forward towards better sound, it it's done seriously. Integrated isn't the best technology when it comes to sound, but it's the cheapest one and has good measurements. Unfortunately, it doesn't always sound the best IMHO.

 

[Newmarket]

Those are IC replacements that are not integrated build but using discrete components.

I think that's generally understood.

...aligned it manually for lowest THD. So discrete can be a big step forward towards better sound, it it's done seriously. Integrated isn't the best technology when it comes to sound...

Attributing "sound quality" to discrete or integrated semiconductor fabrication is a bit of a nonsense tbh. Correlation vs Causation.
"Integrated" is not a "technology". Almost all "integrated" solutions require discrete components to support their function. Even if it's only decoupling and ac coupling/servo capacitors. Integrated construction has real world benefits in some areas eg thermal tracking due to a common substrate.

 

[Walter66]

I think that's generally understood.



Attributing "sound quality" to discrete or integrated semiconductor fabrication is a bit of a nonsense tbh. Correlation vs Causation.
"Integrated" is not a "technology". Almost all "integrated" solutions require discrete components to support their function. Even if it's only decoupling and ac coupling/servo capacitors. Integrated construction has real world benefits in some areas eg thermal tracking due to a common substrate.

To build an IC needs a special technology and a silicon layer is needed. The process was invented after there was a long history of building it with discrete transistors. Yes, IC has their design inherent benefits, but there are drawbacks, too. The two technologies sound different therefore.

 

[cyrano]

View attachment 113298

I'm pretty much convinced this isn't an original Philips part. There's a crown on it and Philips never did that. A quick Google search only came up with pics from Chinese vendors on ebay that sold AD1541 chips with a crown. Or equipment using these.

 

[Newmarket]

To build an IC needs a special technology and a silicon layer is needed. The process was invented after there was a long history of building it with discrete transistors. Yes, IC has their design inherent benefits, but there are drawbacks, too. The two technologies sound different therefore.

Okay but it's not an "audio technology" in the sense of , for example, oversampling; adaptive pcm etc...
Of course silicon (or alternative material) layer(s) are involved - but it's not clear why that form of physical implementation itself would be relevant to the "Sound Quality".
It's a bit like people saying SMT "sounds worse". I doesn't sound worse because it's SMT (as if the wire leads on thru hole have some magical audio powers).
SMT circuits can not sound good - but that's due to eg resistor material (using thick film rather than MELF/Thin Film) and/or resistors that are physically too small and have significant voltage coefficient.

 

[JohnRoberts]

To build an IC needs a special technology and a silicon layer is needed. The process was invented after there was a long history of building it with discrete transistors. Yes, IC has their design inherent benefits, but there are drawbacks, too. The two technologies sound different therefore.

Are you inferring that discrete transistors don't use silicon?

I am not aware of any inherent sound difference between discrete and IC designs. It is difficult to make discrete designs that work as well as modern high performance ICs.

JR

 

[living sounds]

leds?

The thing has a few surface mount LEDs on it. Looks more interesting than a non-illuminated diode, I guess. ;-)

 

[Ricardus]

To build an IC needs a special technology and a silicon layer is needed. The process was invented after there was a long history of building it with discrete transistors. Yes, IC has their design inherent benefits, but there are drawbacks, too. The two technologies sound different therefore.

This conclusion can not be drawn from the evidence you presented.

 

[Walter66]

In theory, thats correct, sir.
But, as Goethe Said:
Gray, dear friend, is all theory,
And green life's golden tree.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I used a red LED as a low voltage ( roughly 2V) voltage drop to bias a BBD inside a surround sound decoder kit I sold in the 70s/80. The LED was not visible outside the chassis. I did it because I could, red LEDs were already cheap by then. I am old enough to remember how expensive early LEDs were.

JR

 

[user 37518]

Integrated isn't the best technology when it comes to sound, but it's the cheapest one and has good measurements.

Do you have any hard evidence on which to base this statement? I do not agree even slightly. Also, are you aware of any of the current semiconductor processing methods and techniques? From your comments, it sounds to me like you have an idiosyncratic way of thinking about ICs from the 1960s and 1970s, when integrated circuits were considered (and in some ways they truly were) inferior to discrete technology.

 

[Newmarket]

The thing has a few surface mount LEDs on it. Looks more interesting than a non-illuminated diode, I guess. ;-)

Likely used for a voltage bias / reference ? I see JR has given an example.

 

[Newmarket]

I make the claim that I can design a discrete circuit as poor sounding as any IC based circuit
Mmmm...this maybe why I no longer work in the "Audio Area"

 

[Walter66]

Do you have any hard evidence on which to base this statement? I do not agree even slightly. Also, are you aware of any of the current semiconductor processing methods and techniques? From your comments, it sounds to me like you have an idiosyncratic way of thinking about ICs from the 1960s and 1970s, when integrated circuits were considered (and in some ways they truly were) inferior to discrete technology.

Can we agree on the fact, that the IC chip amp is and was THE cheap, quick and dirty solution the audio industry always strived for? And does it sound the best? Maybe it has good measurements (0.000001% THD), but does this mean it should sound good?
Just ask a question: why are the majority of good amps still build discrete instead of using this low cost IC solution?
I don't necessarily have to think of old IC, this ist still the fact untill today.
Don't get me wrong: I have no problem with my audio IC in the Studer R2R, it sounds fabulous. But did you ever hear such a Studer equipped with discrete build amps? Much better sound. Thats all that counts to me. Technology doesn't mean anything and has no value looked at it without an intention. And if the intention is best sound, discrete often beats IC.
I don't want to start a war on this topic, just shared my sight of things. Anybody else can see it completely reverse, and I'm fine with that, too.

 

[Newmarket]

Can we agree on the fact, that the IC chip amp is and was THE cheap, quick and dirty solution the audio industry always strived for? And does it sound the best? Maybe it has good measurements (0.000001% THD), but does this mean it should sound good?
Just ask a question: why are the majority of good amps still build discrete instead of using this low cost IC solution?
I don't necessarily have to think of old IC, this ist still the fact untill today.
Don't get me wrong: I have no problem with my audio IC in the Studer R2R, it sounds fabulous. But did you ever hear such a Studer equipped with discrete build amps? Much better sound. Thats all that counts to me. Technology doesn't mean anything and has no value looked at it without an intention. And if the intention is best sound, discrete often beats IC.
I don't want to start a war on this topic, just shared my sight of things. Anybody else can see it completely reverse, and I'm fine with that, too.

Are you talking about power amps or small signal stuff ?

 

[ZHOUJUN]

The advantage of ICs is that stability and distortion figures are better than discretes, but sound-wise, they are more like fast food, and of course there are very good amplifiers using ICs, but they can be more expensive than discretes.