[BUILD] 1176 Rev A - Back to the beginning...

[mnats]

Hi there,

I just started on my 1176 rev a and while I am no stranger to wiring and so forth, this is my first DIY project and I want to be extra careful... so this might sound stupid but when testing the Power Rails do I test without a power source connected or do I actually have to plug in the unit? And if so is there something else to check other than continuity between the case?
While I have been following the manual carefully and believe all is fine, I am a little scared that once I plug this baby in I get shocked...unfortunately the manual doesn't really go into depth on how to test and what to be aware of.

I would truly appreciate some details here.

Thanks!

The most important part is on my wiring page which I will re-quote here since many people seem to miss it:

The AC Power Circuit

The AC power section of any DIY project is not something that can be taken lightly. Lethal current is involved and if you have no experience wiring circuits that use high voltage you should find someone who does to help you or leave this work to someone experienced in wiring high voltage circuits.

Laws and standards vary from country to country; familiarize yourself with local regulations concerning electrical wiring involving mains/wall power. If you have any doubts at all, seek out the assistance of a technician, electrician or repair person who can help you. This does not mean simply posting to a forum asking for help! Get some hands-on assistance from a knowledgeable person who can physically help you with the wiring.

You could be held liable if a piece of equipment you miswired causes injury or death. Don't fuck around; this isn't the time to pretend you know what you're doing if you really don't.

 

[mrtomcat]

That is exactly why I am asking here.

I do NOT want to plug in anything until I know it's safe and I will have someone with more experience on this be there when it happens.

What I was asking for is HOW to 1) ensure everything is done correctly prior to plugging in the voltage and 2) How to best test once it is plugged in.

This is NOT covered in detail in the manual, therefore I am asking here
The manual has so many helpful details but when it comes to testing or the power supply it's vague at best, something that should be covered in dramatically more detail

So other than  copying red quotes that I am well aware of it would be nice to actually get an answer to my question. One has to start somewhere...

thanks

 

[Chrome Heart]

Hi there,

I just started on my 1176 rev a and while I am no stranger to wiring and so forth, this is my first DIY project and I want to be extra careful... so this might sound stupid but when testing the Power Rails do I test without a power source connected or do I actually have to plug in the unit? And if so is there something else to check other than continuity between the case?
While I have been following the manual carefully and believe all is fine, I am a little scared that once I plug this baby in I get shocked...unfortunately the manual doesn't really go into depth on how to test and what to be aware of.

I would truly appreciate some details here.

Thanks!

You'll need to power it up to test. If you check the secondaries for correct voltage you should be fine. I use a barrier strip between the PCB and the torroid. It a good place to tap into a supply for the VU lamp, and it also makes it easier to check prior to connecting to the PCB.

 

[Echo North]

Or read through this where it's actually explained in great detail.

http://hairballaudio.com/shop/fetguide.php

 

[mrtomcat]

Or read through this where it's actually explained in great detail.

http://hairballaudio.com/shop/fetguide.php

That's what I am talking about, it stops being detailed right when I need it.... on the testing part The text says place the black lead...but the picture shows a red lead...and there is nothing about powering it up or test to conduct prior to powering up

 

[Echo North]

Or read through this where it's actually explained in great detail.

http://hairballaudio.com/shop/fetguide.php

That's what I am talking about, it stops being detailed right when I need it.... on the testing part The text says place the black lead...but the picture shows a red lead...and there is nothing about powering it up or test to conduct prior to powering up

Yes there is.  The black probe is discussed along with a graphic of where to place it.  If you need more assistance than that, DIY may not be (safely) for you.

 

[mrtomcat]

Or read through this where it's actually explained in great detail.

http://hairballaudio.com/shop/fetguide.php

That's what I am talking about, it stops being detailed right when I need it.... on the testing part The text says place the black lead...but the picture shows a red lead...and there is nothing about powering it up or test to conduct prior to powering up

Yes there is.  The black probe is discussed along with a graphic of where to place it.  If you need more assistance than that, DIY may not be (safely) for you.

It is really sad that instead of getting support on the support forum one gets slammed for asking questions. I am sure you were not born with magical skills that made you the master of DIY, you had to learn somewhere and probably had to ask a few questions here and there.

Fortunately someone was actually nice enough to answer my questions.

But, yes, lesson learned: don't come to a DIY support forum to ask questions about DIY... thank you for that lesson. I won't bother you again

 

[Chrome Heart]

Fellas, lets play nice. Obviously this user is just getting started and needs some basic help. He has obviously purchased some components from one, if not both of you. So, take a tip from someone who has worked in retail, be nice, and create a return customer. 80% of your business is 20% of your customer base. Its not my intention to step on any toes or insult anybody in their efforts.

 

[Echo North]

How have I not played nice?

These threads are FULL of me helping people again and again.  I've spent hundreds of hours helping people and probably 30 hours writing that build particular guide.

He asked about testing the power supply.  I pointed out it was in the manual.  He said there was no mention of the common probe and pointed out it was right there in the text and marked on the photo.  I expressed my concern that if he was having problems with this information he may not be able to safely do this build.  He responded sarcastically.

I have ZERO patience for people who cannot read information clearly given to them.  I don't think they'll be successful at DIY and may be in danger and therefore I prefer they not purchase anything for me. 

Mike

 

[hymentoptera]

This is precisely the sort of thing that caused me to stop before trying to build my kits, and take some time to educate myself on things I did not understand well enough, such as how different kinds of power supplies work, how to better use and get the most out of my test equipment, such as the multimeters and oscilloscope. In this time I've gone from wondering if I'd bitten off more than I could chew, just a few short months ago, to researching mods and alternate componants for my compressor kit. It occurred to me very quickly that this (and everything else on this site) is a DIY project. Meaning no one was going to hold my hand, I had to do this myself, and mnat's warning (copypasted above in red) was what really got me thinking! I was not prepared to build this when I purchased everything back in March, realized I needed to brush up on basic electronics, and here I am today devouring books on active filters and op amps!!! I never would have guessed this project would turn into a crash course in what has suddenly become my #1 hobby. I've picked up a nice soldering iron, and piles of tools, cutters, strippers, you name it, spools of various wire, organizers for my parts, my living room has turned into an electronics workshop!

mrtomcat, the reason we aren't willing to give step by step instructions for checking the PSU is build corrrectly before turning it on is because no one is willing to be responsible for anyone getting hurt, killed, or burning down their house. Now that I understand how the power supply works, I'm comfortable moving forward with my build. For me, I read these threads (Rev A, Rev F, and most of Rev D), the mnats wiring guide numerous times, the new Hairball PDFs, and googled everything I could until I was ready to open existing gear, and carefully probe the PSU of the my equalizers, compressors, etc, and confirm what I'd learned. I even repaired an old Urei 562 that I got cheap because it wasn't working (bad tantalum capacitor in PSU, failed short) and got the satisfaction of applying that knowledge. I further repaired an old Alesis reverb that powered up, passed audio, but the reverb wasn't working, and with some testing on the multimeter I found that it just needed 1 part replaced. A $1 part! Works fine now!

Once you understand how the PSU works in the 1176 it becomes apparent what needs to be done to build and test the PSU yourself. I'm not saying that this is what needs to be done to complete the build, but at least understanding the basics (including the risks involved) will go a long way towards making the builder feel comfortable powering it up the first time. Just in this thread alone are tons of builders who took their time, and still blew a fuse (often wrong fuse), or fried R32 (output tranny wired wrong), but they powered up, taking care not to touch anything potentially energized to mains voltage, and reported their problem.

#1 makes sure you understand which parts carry mains voltage when wired correctly.

#2 makes sure you are using the correct fuse, and make sure you will be plugging into a socket that has some form of circuit breaker, either a GFI plug, and/or a breaker/fuse at the electrical panel in your building. If you accidentally connect live to ground (chassis), and the live has a path to ground, the fuse or breaker will blow/trip. This is there for your safety.

#3 understand that the IEC connector has three pins, and what each of those pins do. understand that a correctly wired 1176 takes power from the IEC, through the fuse there, then through the switch on the meter switch, and finally through the power transformer's primary windings and back to neutral on the IEC plug.

#4 the power transformer's secondaries then become energized to a much lower AC voltage. Everything from the secondaries and all through the rest of the circuit will be at a much safer voltage in this circuit (1176)

#5 learn to use a multimeter to test all of these things, including continuity (or ohms if your meter doesn't do continuity) to test that everything is hooked up correctly before powering on, and how to check volts AC to show your getting the correct voltages in the mains wiring, and on the secondary side too, which is the lower AC voltage feeding the rectifier diodes on the PCB, and also using volts DC setting for testing the rest of the PSU on the PCB, and all the test points shown in the schematics and ultimately during troubleshooting and calibration.

I hope some of this points you in the right direction. Take your time, read everything you can on the subject, and just be safe!!! Once you understand what the power supply is doing it all starts to make sense

 

[Echo North]

Well said.

I don't want to pull the help thread off track and I certainly never mean to offend anyone.  If I did, I apologize. Anyone who's met me in person knows I'm probably too nice.  I also have no problem with dumb questions, I had a bunch of them here once too.  However, in this forum to get help you need to meet people half way.  The information requested is there, if it's not clear enough I'd be happy to take suggestions on how to make it more clear.

Mike

 

[jplebre]

HI guys

I've been scratching my head for several months on this. It's actually a rev D, but on Rev d no one seems to have heard of this.
However, I heard reports of symptoms here but no conclusive resolution.

My attack pot does bugger all :S the unit seems to be stuck at about midway "fast" attack setting regardless of the potentiometer.

All is measuring fine, continuity fine. I think it may be either a component failing due to something else or some really obvious problem that a lot of people have done (several people comment there's little variation on their clones - which is not how a 1176 behaves)

Any insight or clues?

Rectification at the diodes is fine, voltage at qbias reads about -3v, about -2.6v at the gate.

hmm bump anyone?

 

[mrtomcat]

hymentoptera, thank you for your post....these are the kind of answers I was hoping to receive as well as the treatment.

I have wired car systems plenty of times (I used to compete in drag racing) and build custom nitrous systems, so I do have a basic understanding on this. And nothing has ever blown up or worse...knocking on wood.
I have also done successful mods on guitar amps and built patch bays so I know hoe to wire a system.
What I have not done is wire a transformer and deal with higher voltages...which was the main reason I posted here because I rather wanted to ask a stupid question and live than not ask and get hurt.

A friend of mine who is a professional Electronics engineer is helping me and verifying I am doing everything right, however he is not available all the time and I am trying to learn how to do this myself...therefore I am trying to get everything to a point that is safe on my end and then have him validate my wiring before turning the unit on.

I have also read the manuals multiple times and have print outs next to me during the build.

What I didn't know and what was my sole purpose of asking the question here, that immediately got me treated like an idiot, was how far I could wire things up and be able to test BEFORE plugging this thing in.

I did not see a reference in the manual that said: Now plug the unit in and start testing... I figured I would have to but was hoping I could run some tests prior to that.

I was incredibly impressed with this kit when I did my research on what to get and I was incredibly happy with Mike from Hairball during the purchase process.
And then yesterday instead  of being pointed in the right direction the two guys whose product I just purchased slammed on me which was not appreciated whatsoever.
The manual is incredibly detailed and well written for the most part but there are several sections where a newbie at this can get lost, which is what happened to me here.

Having said all this, I would like to make peace, stress again that once it's time to turn this baby on there will be a pro EE right there with me to make sure it all goes as planned. And I would like to be able to ask a question from time to time without being treated like an idiot.

again thank you hymentoptera for your helpful hints!

 

[hymentoptera]

...
again thank you hymentoptera for your helpful hints!

As long as you followed the instructions "to a TEE" then you should be okay. You might plug in your IEC cable to the compressor (leaving the other end, the end that plugs into the wall, disconnected) and check continuity between the ground pin of the cable and various exposed metal points on the chassis such as screws and cutouts. This will ensure that the chassis has path to ground, and theoretically if mains voltage shorts to chassis it will trip you chassis. Also, use one of these Receptable Testers (available at Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart, for $5 if you're in the States) to ensure the wall outlet is properly wired, then you can be sure you can't easily blow yourself up. It's not a total check-up, but it's something everyone should do first before connecting their compressor to mains and turning it on.

 

[hymentoptera]

hmm bump anyone?

Could the pot be bad?

 

[jplebre]

unfortunately, no. Measures fine and I've replaced it as well just in case. :S

 

[hymentoptera]

unfortunately, no. Measures fine and I've replaced it as well just in case. :S

and of course I'm sure you know the 1176 is stupid-fast on attack, so there's basically either really fast or crazy fast? Are any transients making it through at all? it's normal for these to behave more like limiters than compressors. And of course the knobs are backwards from what you'd think, with fully clockwise being fastest?

Just covering all the bases here before we move on.

 

[jplebre]

That's cool I would do the same

Indeed! All versions of 1176 (and I've used a few) can make a snare sound like a transientless decay.
My revD is not nearly fast enough. In all units I used (original Ds, greyfaces, UREI reissues and UA reissues) there's variation on the attack to let no transient whatsoever through to let a fair amount of it through in things like snares, or an acoustic guitar being dug in really hard etc.

Mine seems to be stuck somewhere around 5 on a real unit. Going full on CW or CCW does very little change. definetly doesn't go limiter faster or let the transient completely through. In most cases it just about starts to grab it

 

[Harpo]

hmm bump anyone?

C27=22 nF ?
R54=470 ohm?

 

[jplebre]

Yes. Replaced them, even created a little PCB and slotted them in as I was afraid I was damaging them with heath (one of the 1176 was my very first projects ever).
They both check out, in both units :S