CCS and the TUBE

[analag]

[quote author="solder_city"]im sorry... ive been trying to be cool and stay out of your threads but ive had it with this nonsense

I've debunked some of the "BEST" brains around here

you keep sayin that
but when it comes to proof, you aint posted ****
'because i said so' does not count as proof
boasting is not the same as debunking
delusion of granduer does not equal genius

oh, and you have a serious persecution complex there, columbus. dont post designs for discussion if you dont want them discussed! -and i mean scrutinized more closely than 'gee analag that looks great'

the reason your threads always end up like this is not because THE MAN is trying to keep you and your brilliant designs down. its cause you talk a lot of **** and approach the whole thing with a paranoid hostile attitude.

nobodys tryin to keep you down analag. in fact- until you have something more to show than simulations and your giant ego- no one really gives a **** eithr way![/quote]

Solder, old boy it sounds like a song. It's true though, believe me BROTHER.

analag

 

[analag]

[quote author="Marik"]

What are the figures, what about sonics, and also, what is the noise performance? If you would've provided all that, then it proves the text book engineers are wrong, and then we all would say to Larr: "F@kk your graphs". :razz:

Oh wait, Winston seem to try this one.
Hey Winston, do you mind saving me some time and sharing what you've got?[/quote]

That's an entertaining idea to get to say"F@kk your graphs Larr"
That's gonna be my weekend project. Larr, I'm shining up my steel toe boot, man.

O'Boogie,s opinion is subject mine will be objective. If my results is not up to parr then I'll be the one feeling the effects of Mr. Lar's boot.

analag

 

[Larrchild]

When Winston pointed out that if a CCS and a constant current sink like a pentode are connected, they form a "pull- pull" circuit, he said it in a civil manner and I did too.

If you can't debate that using some generally-accepted facts, or a sound file that makes us all prostrate in worship, then why would anyone accept your conclusions at face value?

If you built airplanes like this, you'd be a charred spot on the earth.
Basic rules are not meant to be broken, they are to help you.
Embrace them.

Someone needs to write some code that allows the circuit under test in sim to act as an insert plugin for a media player on a pc so every tweak could be heard in real time. Maybe then, starting in sim would have more value.

 

[Marik]

[quote author="analag"]

Larr, I'm shining up my steel toe boot, man.

If my results is not up to parr then I'll be the one feeling the effects of Mr. Lar's boot.

[/quote]

I am impatiently waiting for the battle :grin:
My money is on that Gentlemen in red trunks in far left corner.

BTW Analag, as a side note, what is the output impedance of EF86 as a pentode with 4:1 transformer?

And now Gentlemen, musical (supposedly cheerleader) intermission.
A wav of my preamp with a choke.
Please note, it is a live recording, so I could not use my favorite omnies. I hate cardioids on piano. :evil:
Besides, for esthetics reasons :roll: I could not use the mics in the spot I wanted, so they are just at random place somewhere aside from the stage.

http://home.comcast.net/~markfuksman/PreampClip.wav

 

[analag]

Marik, I think I will use this clip as my test signal, since you are intimate with the sound of it already.

analag

 

[enthalpystudios]

hey i dont know **** from shinola in a thread like this, and dont want to get in the middle of an argument, but its a cool place to be around here, i hate seeing arguments erupt.....

i just have a ton of respect for you guys, and honestly look up to you guys, internet or not. you guys that do know how to keep the **** off your shoes, and know your way around cct's, you guys design some really interesting stuff.... these threads are my absolute favorite threads to read... i learn more from these than anything. and prr's posts, forget about it. why stay in college? (why go to night school?).....

anyway, all i'm saying is that theres a great comradery here, and among you who 'know your ****," there is a strong sense that you all help push each other's designs to be the best they can be.... its really inspiring, and its cool just to watch it all unfold.

just want to say that what little i know of anything here, i know enough to be really intrigued by what everybody's working on...

that sample marik, sounds really excellent... in my opinion. especially after listening to a ton of "the listening sessions' just now..... makes that stuff sound pretty bland to be honest. (opinions, opinions)

and i'd love to hear what analag can do to it...

literally, i'll be out getting some food after this thread, and checking the forum on my damn smartphone. its a good way to pass time on the bus, or waiting for food, or whatever. forum ;]

so keep up the good work, i think its not too much to look to the circuits. i know i personally have very little doubt in the community to do some really great things. i mean, the 407a pre with custom cj iron, thats the sweetest thing ever man.... total coop diy. cant wait to hear a sample of that. and what i've heard of your recordings analag, you get some great sounds, that dub track was excellent..... i dont want to start giving props to who i think is cool, because i dont want to leave anybody out, and there are just so many really talented minds at work over here.

cant wait to hear what happens next, and thanks to everyone who brings their designs and hard work to the public here, its the real life of the forum.... threads just like this.

who almost lost the whole damn bunch of JARGON preceding....

so anyway, cant wait to see what happens next..... lets all chill and relax, cuz the drawing board is the most interesting thing goin down on the net for me.... well, outside of music, and possibly women, its about the most interesting thing to me at all.

keep it sweet fellas

billy

 

[analag]

Hmmm, should I run it through my 660 as well. Could this be the forums test sample. We need a set standard anyway, something we can draw an objective reference from. I'm ready to showcase the sonics of the tube equiptment wrought by my crazy mind?

analag

 

[analag]

Update...I'm putting it together and setting it up for testing.

Marik, I checked out the Wav file, especially in the spaces between the chords when the notes were decaying. Needless to say the sound is remarkable, too bad it's so short. I could lean back in my chair with a good cigar, trim the lights and let the music profuse me....love the piano.
Yah man.

analag

 

[Winston OBoogie]

[quote author="analag"]What about the results of my experimentation. Why must I be a Christopher Columbus, proclaiming the world is round when "ALL" the wise men say it's flat. History repeats itself.
Put away your graphs and rulers, start your soldering iron and venture into my world, oh yea wise and learn-ed men.
analag[/quote]


Not generally in the habit of forming my opinions from graphs, simulations and nice pictures. Usually build 'em myself. About 10,000 channels of mic amps in the marketplace so far. More than I care to think about, more than I've had hot dinners. Need to get a better paying job...



Let's take out of the equation this 'debatable' issue of a CCS's sonic attributes.
Also the matter of whether loading a 'pentode's' anode with said is a good, or not so good, idea.

The original V72 circuit uses an 11 - 12K DCR, 400H choke for anode loading - H.T. supply is 275Vish
and voltage on the anode is approx 260V.
In 'your' circuit, you use roughly the same supply voltage (300V on yours versus the V72's 275V) and specify 150V at the
anode/CCS junstion.

Now, with this circuit you say that the output swing is the same with the CCS as with a choke load.
I fail to see how this is anything more than 'Magical Thinking" but please enlighten me.
You could raise the H.T. , along with recalulaing the S.G. or bias point for lowest distortion,
but you didn't do that. Any chance the great Mr. C. Columbus could explain this to me
before I fall off the edge?



OK, someone else's "opinion" of CCS's and their use in loading a pentode:

"There is a nasty disadvantage to any constant current source load. This type
of topology is really only applicable to triodes. Since a pentode presents a
fairly constant current sink, trying to power it from a constant current source
will be fairly unsuccessful, sort of like the unstoppable object hitting the immovable
object..."

It's searchable via Google. I happen to respect this person's "opinion". YMMV.

[quote author="analag"]Too bad this is literary endeavor where it's hard for my practical approach to prevail against the text book engineers and their arguments, but I've debunked some of the "BEST" brains around here, simply because they believe the graph is greater than the soldering iron.

Nothing more to be gained here...on to the next thread.[/quote]

From what I read in Dave's excellent compressor thread, you've also de-bunked the minds of people who aren't here - Mr. R. Narma for one.
When you're ready to debate the real merits of CCS's (I too can rework Mr. Camille's CCS BTW) I'll be ready to engage.

All the best.

Post Sriptum edit: [quote author="analag"]Update...I'm putting it together and setting it up for testing. [/quote]

Good. Did the same myself. Had a choke loaded circuit on hand for comparison too. As I said earlier, "I'm sticking with the choke".

Post Ciggy Scriptum edit: I retract any implied nastiness from my postings. I also retract my invitation for future debate with Mr. Columbus on CCS's due to my having better things to do at that time. I don't retract the points I made.


Ciao.

 

[Larrchild]

Now, with this circuit you say that the output swing is the same with the CCS as with a choke load.
I fail to see how this is anything more than 'Magical Thinking" but please enlighten me.

Just to move the ball down the court, what Winston woofed is that a choke allows the waveform to exceed the rail V .
All a CCS can do is go between rail and ground. Therefore: the swing caint be identical.=)

Have better things to do.

Go get a Hot Meal, for God's sake. You've earned it.

 

[Winston OBoogie]

[quote author="Larrchild"]
Just to move the ball down the court, what Winston woofed is that a choke allows the waveform to exceed the rail V .
All a CCS can do is go between rail and ground. Therefore: the swing caint be identical.=)[/quote]

Thanks for the Canine-Babelfish-English translation Lar.

:grin:

 

[Winston OBoogie]

[quote author="Marik"]
Hey Winston, do you mind saving me some time and sharing what you've got?[/quote]

Maybe Rowan's build will be exempt from this particular dissadvantage but mine tended to be in agreement with the Physical Laws of things - it doesn't work as is.

Strap the EF86 as a triode and raise the H.T. somewhat and it does work.
However, not a v72 then though so why bother using an EF86 in the first place.

CCS itself: I think the one I referenced above by Gary Pimm is by FAR and away better than the Camille or a derivative. Gary has spent way more time on these things than I could ever hope to. Anyway, not sure I would achieve the same excellent results regardless of how much time I spent trying.

Again:

anyone else tried this?

 

[analag]

[quote author="Winston O'Boogie"]Post Ciggy Scriptum edit: I retract any implied nastiness from my postings. I also retract my invitation for future debate with Mr. Columbus on CCS's due to my having better things to do at that time. I don't retract the points I made.


Ciao.[/quote]

Nor the burgers with the bio-engineered meat in it.

analag

 

[CJ]

the choke is interesting, you have zero swing on one end, but slowy, as you progress down the wire, you start to see ac. then, at the end of the wire, you have the whole swing from the ac signal.

so there are gradients of both ac and dc voltages in the windings.

 

[analag]

http://www.pacifier.com/~gpimm/schematics.htm

 

[Winston OBoogie]

[quote author="analag"]http://www.pacifier.com/~gpimm/schematics.htm[/quote]

Yep. Use of a pentode as part of the CCS itself sure is nifty. I know you know that that's how he's using them...right?

To be fair, I am aware of one instance where Mr Pimm attempted to load a pentode's anode with one (don't see it in the schematic page and don't remember the particulars) but it was abandoned in favour of simpler methods.

BTW, I'm in absolute agreement with your new sig. tag:

"To have designed and failed, is better than to have not designed at all"

Peace and good luck to ya'
Ciao.

post scriptum: Never touch the bio-burgers myself either.

 

[analag]

All is well, that ends well. You guys have me getting ready to buy a few of those $10.00 chokes. So there, I'm sold

I was with a female last night who insisted on going to B**g*r K**g for a burger despite all effort to dissuade her.

Rowan

 

[Winston OBoogie]

winston o boogie picks boogies when thinking of hamburgers mmmmm

Edit: Didn't post the above, my new room mate did when I got up to go to the bathroom without signing off first. That's what you get for moving back in with an ex-wife I guess :roll:

 

[Winston OBoogie]

I like smelling my armpits too, mmmmm



Edit: :roll: Didn't do that one either.

An apt end to the thread no doubt :grin:


[quote author="analag"]I was with a female last night who insisted on going to B**g*r K**g for a burger despite all effort to dissuade her.
[/quote]

At least said ex of mine is a veggie even though she does like smelling her own armpits...

Rowan, :guinness: :guinness: :sam: :sam: :thumb: