Current flows which way in a tube?

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jstark

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
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114
Location
Austin, TX
I've been reading about tubes for the last hour, and I've found only one source that describes a tube's current flow from plate to cathode. The rest describe current flowing from cathode to plate. I understand that electrons flow from negative to positive, and that "conventional current" is just a theoretical construct, but why, in all of these tube theory sources, do they not adhere to this? Thanks,
 
> why, in all of these tube theory sources, do they not adhere to this?

Real tube heads always follow the current top to bottom. Current is like water. Any fool knows that water flows downhill.

> I've found only one source that describes a tube's current flow from plate to cathode.

You need to find more tube-heads.

> The rest describe current flowing from cathode to plate.

That's the direction the electrons flow. Since a normally-operating vacuum tube only flows one way, we can ignore the +/- sign on current. Since the current is all electrons, they do flow cathode to plate. Occasionally it is useful to see it that way. But to make the math come out right, including polarity, you need to note it as negative current.

> "conventional current" is just a theoretical construct

No, it assumes that current is carried on positive charges and on negative charges denoted with a "-". At the time, they knew that potential had two sexes that looked the same but weren't. To make the math work, they had to put + and - signs in, and arbitrarily picked one to call "+".

In 99% of situations, you can't really assign one polarity or the other: charges flow both ways. Positive one way, negative the other way. This is true of wires and semiconductors. In wires, while you could say the electrons move, each time one moves right you find a positive ion behind it, with a net flow of positive charge to the left. In semiconductors the distinction is even slimmer. In gas tubes the positive charge flow is very real. It is only in high-vacuum tubes that we can actually believe in electrons. And since they are assigned a negative polarity, the current DOES flow from plate to cathode when the electrons flow cathode to plate.

At least in vacuum tubes, the reality is unambiguous, no matter which way the author describes it. When transistors came out with electrons and holes flowing in a solid, and PNP and NPN, it got real confusing.
 
Physics 101 messed me up for a long time when it came to learning real electronics. Go with what PRR said. Ignore the electron flow. Current goes from plate to cathode.

>> In wires, while you could say the electrons move, each time one moves right you find a positive ion behind it, with a net flow of positive charge to the left.

Technically not an ion. Metalic bonding is a little more complicated than covalent bonding which can be represented somewhat by a bonding model. Metalic bond strengths fall somewhere in between covalent and ionic bonds, and the metalic electron cloud behaves more like a communist state, where no atom really owns any of the conduction band electrons, not even momentarilly. The energy band model better represents what happens in a conductor. The band gap in conductors is insignificant or non existant, so that all valance electrons are essentially conduction band electrons. This leads to an electron cloud comprised of all the valence-shell electrons free to wander over the metalic atoms. The electron/hole relationship in semiconductors doesn't really apply to conductors. To continue your water analogy, metalic conduction is like a stream (electrons) flowing over river rock (metalic atoms). The water flows in the the direction of gravity, the driving force (voltage). You never see any holes or ions.

-Chris
 
As long as you use the same system for thr rest of your life, it really does not matter. Engineers who sit at a drawing board all day with 100 zillion transistors in front of them seem to get by easier if they use the conventional concept.

My electronics teacher told me, with a slight snicker, that they were too lazy to re-write the world's text books once they had realized their gaff.
Maybe a bit of truth to that, momentum can be great.

The real world answer seems to go something like:

Engineers and other college graduates use conventional current,
College drop outs, (me), technicians, and DIY freaks use the "right" system of electrons being attrated to a positive terminal of some kind.
 
:Real tube heads always follow the current top to bottom. Current is
:like water. Any fool knows that water flows downhill.

I must be a fool, because when i drive my car very fast dowhill
when it rains all the water flows upwards the front window! :green:

kkrafs
 
Thanks Emperor-TK for that bit of physics.

A very informative discussion of conductors with resistance is found in a book I've touted before, Peter Carroll Dunn's Gateways into Electronics (and I really don't receive a promotional consideration from Wiley :razz: ).

Carver Mead (ever the iconoclast) wrote a whole short book that starts from a very different perspective than the conventional: Collective Electrodynamics. I suspect he wrote the book for many reasons, but among them was probably the desire to piss off Bill Middlebrook.
 
> to piss off Bill Middlebrook.

Inventor of the paper-clip machine???

paperclip2.gif
 
Very off-topic in every way:

Order of Magnitude Physics
A Textbook
with Applications to the Retinal Rod
and the Density of Prime Numbers

http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/sanjoy/thesis/thesis-letter.pdf

and

Order-of-Magnitude Physics:
Understanding the World with Dimensional Analysis,
Educated Guesswork, and White Lies

http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/sanjoy/oom/book-letter.pdf
 
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