Device for mixer inserts

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NewYorkDave

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Joined
Jun 4, 2004
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New York (Hudson Valley)
I drew this up in response to a question from a friend who wants to wire the (unbalanced) inserts of his Crane Song Spider rackmounted mixer to a patchbay. I thought others might find it useful, too.

Schematic (3kB GIF)

I envision 8 or 10 of these in a 1RU box mounted right above or below the mixer, with short TRS cables connecting the mixer to the box.

The "loop active" switches are to prevent running the signal through unnecessary lengths of cable, extra connectors, etc. when the inserts are not actually being used. Simply unplugging the inserts is not a convenient option in this case, since the mixer is rackmounted and the connections are on the rear.
 
very good

same basic idea should work for larger format consoles that don't have a good insert send return arrangement. This is one of the many reasons a mixer can seem ... good value ??
Nice to try to incorporate the panel as part of the main patch panels.

In Dave's case he left it close to the mixer to keep the cables short. good stuff.

For the larger format this might not be possible so a relay arrangement may be needed. It just goes to show that some DIY can be at it's best when no real active circuitry is needed. All/most of this is just wiring and panel layout. Anyone can do this if they put their mind to it and have a clear plan.

There is much very good product out there both cheap and expensive BUT often it can be difficult to incorporate it directly into our existing studios. This is where some DIY and a little knowledge can be very effectively applied.

Without wiring and interconnectivity many studios are just shopping lists of equipment. Too many pro studios have downsized there experienced techs and I think will suffer in the future.
 
Thanks Dave! You're the best.
:grin:

Could you, or anyone else recommend a good, not too expensive transformer for this application--one that would fit in a 1RU box?
 
I made some insert transformer balancing boxes for work about 6 months back. I work in live sound, and unfortunately at the company I work for we are stuck with desks with unbalanced inputs (mostly soundcraft) as we do not have the budget nor enough big jobs to justify buying midas desks or similar 'proper' heavy duty stuff. When your FOH rig gets large enough and you have lots of inserts etc, you sometimes get into trouble, and these boxes can be really useful. The boxes I made were just like NYD's but with an input and an output transformer. For money reasons, I used OEP's...forget the number, but they're the ones that can be strapped for 2k2 in and out, or thereabouts. I have no problem with the OEP's; for live sound they are transparent enough, but perhaps in more critical environments someone may say they are too 'coloured'. I do find them audible, but not at all in a bad way.

Whilst we're on balancing issues; I once found that I was unable to get rid of an insert hum with these boxes. It really confused me, as my natural instinct was to go with the 'but it's transformer floated...it MUST work!' Anyway, I had wired the sleeve of the 3-pole jack insert (desk ground) to the input XLR pin one, but left the output XLR pin one disconnected. This was in strict accordance with our policy of disconnecting all output pin 1's on all our gear. I theory this meant that the screen should never have been connected at both ends for any of our gear, but alas, a few rogue pieces of equipment were discovered that did not adhere to this policy...and on this particular gig a non-standard piece of gear meant that there was an additional ground path from the insert rack to an unbalanced insert point on the desk. Regardless of transformers and balancing and floating and all that, it means that there was a noise (hum) current going through that channel. That current actually makes the channel hum, and it's not really anything to do with with balancing, as it is introduced outside of the actual balanced lines.

Since then, I modded the boxes so that the pin ones on the input and output XLR's simply connect together, without connecting to the unbalanced insert ground (the sleeve of the 3-pole jack) at all. That ensures that the insert device ground simply cannot connect to the desk insert ground via the interconnect leads. The actual metal case itself is not connected to any ground, but the screens of the transformers do connect to the desk (3-pole jack) ground, but are insulated from the case.

Fun, innit?

Bjorn
 
Well, you can spend as much or nearly as little as you want to on a 1:1 transformer. There are several options that should fit nicely in a 1RU box. Here's one of the more affordable ones:
http://www.edcorusa.com/transformers/audio/wsm/wsm600-600.htm
It did pretty well in some preliminary bench tests. See this thread (my test report is near the end of the thread):
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=2780

There's also the smaller and even more affordable PC-mount model:
http://www.edcorusa.com/transformers/audio/pc/pc600-600.htm
I have samples of this model on their way to me right now, and I'll let you know how they test.

If you wanna go more "upscale", the options are nearly limitless, but it gets awfully expensive when you're talking eight, ten or more pieces! :wink:
 
Does anyone have a copy of the linked schematic? The original link is broken.

This is exactly the problem I'm trying to solve. I have an idea how to do it, but I'm probably wrong...

Thanks in advance!
 
evan38109 said:
Does anyone have a copy of the linked schematic? The original link is broken.

Hey I'm looking for this too - anyone have it or a live link to it?

thanks,
T

 

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